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Posted by u/yr1337 2 years ago
Ask HN: How do you ask users about their pain point?
I'm interested in the healthcare/medical space and trying to find a worthy problem to work on. I'm applying the YC method of asking as many doctors as possible what their pain point is.

It's not going well. Just scraping LinkedIn and trying to make connections, I'm getting a 25% connection rate and a 1% interview rate.

My message is super concise and trying to be as non-salesy as possible. I'm pretty clear I'm just looking to learn/listen and not pitch.

BTW I'm also looking into other avenues than LinkedIn, just not 100% sure what that may be.

So, startup folks, how did you manage to land these early discovery interviews? Especially those in the healthcare sector.

gnatman · 2 years ago
In the realm of cold calling / emailing, 1% conversion is actually pretty normal. 2-5% would be unusually good. I would stick with what you're doing and don't lose faith!

If you want to try different strategies in parallel, I work in sales for a healthcare SaaS and while my product is results/outcomes oriented, I have much better luck talking to people about RESULTS they want to achieve vs. PROBLEMS they want to solve. At least now we're getting excited about something good vs. something they are already sick of talking about, or know they can't fix.

Some of the pains in healthcare are so structurally embedded in the industry, products purporting to relieve those pains are so plentiful, and ACTUAL pain relieving results are so few and far between, that messages looking for honest input on major pains that doctors experience is too clear of a dogwhistle for "I'm going to try to sell you a solution that doesn't work" and will be ignored.

Many doctors, for example, are still nursing wounds caused by the shift to EMR from paper- pretty much every vendor in that space promises an "easy migration" and the reality is that porting to EMR or switching vendors is a massive massive pain in the ass. ANY solution for a pain, or for amplifying/increasing a beneficial outcome, comes at not only a financial cost, but (perhaps more importantly) an opportunity cost associated with the time investment. Time = patients, patients = reimbursement, reimbursement = money.

Edit: Another thing that works for me is seeding the conversation with something like, "Something I hear from a lot of providers in [specialty] is they have a problem with [problem], or they want to do more [thing]. Is that true in your practice?"

yr1337 · 2 years ago
Reviewing my numbers I would say it seems closer to 0.5% at this point.

You made good points for the stage that you're in, i.e. you already have a solution that you can sort of pitch upfront (even seeding the conversation is a version of that). I'm at the point where I can't/don't want to bias them with the slightest hint of what I'm solving because it will taint their response. That makes it quite hard!

wanshao · 2 years ago
The last conversational approach is very practical because it provides a concrete example.
jcims · 2 years ago
>I'm pretty clear I'm just looking to learn/listen and not pitch.

They have no reason to trust you. I would think you're just looking for an angle to sell me on no matter what you say.

You might try attending/crashing medical conferences in the area. You could also talk to folks on the periphery of the healthcare industry to look for opportunities.

One that I experienced personally is the difficulty in matching a specific person at a specific point in their treatment to applicable clinical trials. Particularly with cancer where there are so many inclusion/exclusion criteria to consider. The terminology is very dense and not always clear. Then you reach out to the PI and find that the window is even smaller than it appeared at first.

yr1337 · 2 years ago
You hit the nail on the head on BOTH points.

They do not trust me (why would they) and they think it's a sales tactic. I couldn't be purer in my intentions, but people are on the defensive.

And your pain point is actually one I've heard firsthand. Got a few ideas and connections in this area.

obmelvin · 2 years ago
Whether you can see this POV or not, I'd consider that from their perspective you are trying to sell them something. You are trying to sell them on the notion that they should give their time to you for free and they should give you insight to start a company that would be lucrative for yourself. The value trade is actually even less equal than being sold something.

I'm not trying to be rude or insulting, but thinking you have pure intentions doesn't change this.

Some people might have the time or interest in the hope that you can one day make their work easier. So overall I understand why you are asking this question and I'm sure the advice people have given here will help you make some stronger connections to people in this cohort.

janosdebugs · 2 years ago
You are asking for them to spend a considerabe amount of their time on you. If you wrote me a super short mesage about my field (not medicine), I might feel too that this will be 30-60 minutes of my time wasted on a likely sales call.

On the other hand, if you write me a longer message, explaining your background and position, give me all the background info, and let me answer via email, I might be more inclined to help, assuming you demonstrate that you at least have some understanding of the field.

Alternatively, you could offer to pay people for their time, which is not something sales people typically do.

stevage · 2 years ago
Beyond trust - they have nothing to gain. You learn from the interview. They get...what exactly?
gopher_space · 2 years ago
Could you buy rounds at a bar near a hospital?
mindcrime · 2 years ago
If you follow Steve Blank's approach, the ideal thing to do is start with "friendly first contacts" - that is, people you actually know personally and/or people who you are referred to by people you know personally. Then, once you get even a few "friendly first contact" meetings, you ask those people to refer you to their contacts, and so on in turn.

Note that this stuff is never as easy as it sounds on paper, but if you put enough effort in, it eventually works (in my experience anyway).

Also note that even if you're not pitching a product for sale (yet) asking people for their time for an interview is still an ask. Ideally you'd like to be able to offer to compensate people for their time somehow. I don't mean paying them cash or anything, but think about how to structure your invitations in such a way as to communicate that you're offering them something in return for their time. That "something" might be "an early peek at a revolutionary new technology for ABC" or whatever you can think of that is a way of giving some value to them. Be creative.

Also, it's not always the easiest thing to go in asking people "what are your pain points" in an extremely open-ended way. You might find that it's easier to start with a hypothesis about a possible pain point, and pitch things in terms of "We've noticed that firms like yours often have to deal with problem $FOOBAR. To that end, we're developing a novel solution for $FOOBAR, and we'd love a few minutes of your time (no sales pitch!) to talk about how $FOOBAR and related problems affect you. In return for a 30 minute interview, we'll offer you $SOMETHING".

yr1337 · 2 years ago
I'll check Steve Blank out (didn't know him), but I've been trying to follow this technique ad-hoc. Like you said, easier said than done. Even friendly people aren't very responsive to requests for intros. In the few interviews I did I made a point to ask for intros at the end and although they say "sure", it's crickets afterwards.

This is a humbling realization of what salespeople are up against. We all love to hate on these guys but man... What a hustle and you need armor-like skin and insane optimism and persistence.

tonyarkles · 2 years ago
> In the few interviews I did I made a point to ask for intros at the end and although they say "sure", it's crickets afterwards.

Are you doing these in person or virtually? If you're doing it in person, you're already at the end and have the data you're looking for from the person you're talking with. "Do you know any other people I should talk to?" "Yeah" "Ok, could I just write their names down right now here?"

spxneo · 2 years ago
see this is why "startup" is so much harder than running a "business"

a "business" already works on what is built or established, refining processes to branch off beaten paths to sales/marketing

a "startup" operates with too many unknowns for the average person, 99% failure means only 1% of the people figure out the unknowns to become a "business"

I just don't understand why people just default to "startup". You should be focused on running a business and make a 15 cents out of a dollar spent, not spend a dollar to make 15 cents in hopes that someone will "buy you out" or you "ipo"

such are pipe dreams

mikesabat · 2 years ago
While the hustle is admirable, I think you could use more creativity on the outreach plan. Doctors are likely one of the most harried professions in the world. Cold emails to these folks are not going to work well.

You have to find a way to network.

Look at how pharma reps do it. Attractive people, coming into the office and bring lunch.

Where can you put yourself in a spot to meet and talk to a high percentage of doctors. My first thought is a golf course. Is there a way in that way?

Do you volunteer at a hospital on weekends?

Another tip is for anyone you talk to, ask for introductions. Who else has this problem?? I work in healthcare (not a doctor). Not sure if I can help, but happy to chat if you dm me.

wanderingmind · 2 years ago
Volunteer at a hospital seems like an amazing win-win. While doing something useful for society they can get to meet potential customers (doctors). Do you know of any resources that talk about such creative outreaches done by different entrepreneurs. I would love to read something like this.
GianFabien · 2 years ago
One of our friends is a retired pharma rep. He made the majority of his connections through networking at conferences. During their workdays, doctors are typically over-worked and unwilling to be distracted.

Same retired pharma rep now volunteers at a major hospital a couple of days a week - most of his interaction is with patients - staff are too busy and volunteers provide the necessary welfare connections, especially with elderly and lonely patients.

notatoad · 2 years ago
>I'm pretty clear I'm just looking to learn

put another way, you're asking people to take some of their time to teach you. I'm assuming that if you were offering compensation for this time you'd have mentioned it.

getting a 1% interview rate for an ask like that is exceptional. especially considering the people you're asking are known for being extremely busy, and you're asking from outside their industry.

scottishbee · 2 years ago
I think your question is really: "how do I find people to interview?"

First, find out where your prospects actually spend time. LinkedIn is garbage for a lot of industries. Most doctors don't change jobs much or building "personal brands", so they're not scanning LinkedIn often. Reddit can also be often a better community.

Second, don't cold message people. Put out HELPFUL (not clickbait) content. It can be as simple as a question ("hey, I'm wondering how people solve X?"). Let the community come to you. Then follow up with the people that engaged with your content. They've shown an interest in your topic AND a willingness to engage.

At the end of every call, ask two questions: can you follow up with them with further questions and is there anyone they can think of that would be helpful to learn more? For that second question ask them, IN THE CALL, to write an intro email/message connecting you. Social validation is critical.

Finally, actually follow up. 1-4 weeks later message an update, thank them for their perspective and connection, and again ask if there's anyone they can think of to learn more from.

yr1337 · 2 years ago
I like your suggestion and it sounds like it would work great for certain cohorts, but not so sure about docs. I can see employing this tactic in a conference though. But that's more of a phase 2 thing when you already have a handful of ideas.
altdataseller · 2 years ago
Sounds good in theory but awful in practice. Nobody will connect with you if you ask an open question in public. Like what are the chances a doctor will respond back to a question you post on LinkedIn or even Reddit?
ametrau · 2 years ago
No. Cold call.
KingOfCoders · 2 years ago
Don't. Watch them do their work, or let them describe their work.

From my coaching practice, people are not very good identifying there real pain point. My back hurts, but my back isn't broken, I just sit too much.

esafak · 2 years ago
How's he going to watch doctors do their work? Have you ever seen vendors sit in on your appointments?
KingOfCoders · 2 years ago
Personally not in appointments, but I have seen vendors observe doctors in hospitals. But you can always role play for example.
yr1337 · 2 years ago
It's something I used to do internally at my previous employer, and I know it's very useful. In this case I would have to convince a doc to let me follow them around and that's an immense ask. It's also going to miss systemic, intangible issues that are not task related. It's a great thing to do for an already-established product.
CodeWriter23 · 2 years ago
You must have a doctor somewhere in your network 1 degree of separation away. Get a friend to ask for a favor to invite the doctor to a meal at a nice place, your treat. Be up front about your intent. At the right time, pitch to the doctor the idea of interacting on the job with doctor and/or staff. And don't promise the doctor any equity. Maybe free access to the product.
noashavit · 2 years ago
Have you considered offering them something for their time? Something as simple as a gift card to a coffee shop, so you can have virtual coffee and chat about their pain points?

I know you don't want to sounds sales-y, and there are ways to offer this without sounding like a salesperson. Just an idea

sircastor · 2 years ago
And be upfront about it - tell them that you're in the research phase and you're just trying to gather information, and it's not a sales call.
falcor84 · 2 years ago
Exactly this. People's time is money; pay them what their time is worth.
acureau · 2 years ago
This has the side effect of incentivizing bullshit submissions. This may work better for something that is rigid, like answering some multiple choice questions.
yr1337 · 2 years ago
I do not want to incentivize people to give me BS feedback just to get paid. If they need money or a gift to tell me about their pain point, it's not a pain point.
IanCal · 2 years ago
Why should they spend their time talking to you though? You're asking busy people to help you come up with a business idea for free.

> If they need money or a gift to tell me about their pain point, it's not a pain point.

This just doesn't follow. There are issues I face, but still have no incentive to spend time explaining them to you.

ametrau · 2 years ago
Do you think doctors will care about coffee vouchers or will they correctly think it’s weird and patronising? Cold calling is a gift solicitation. Making it transactional from the start is mistaken.