> Race isn’t a biological factor like age, sex or weight — it’s a social construct.
> In 1999, an equation used to calculate eGFR was modified to adjust Black people’s results compared to everyone else’s, based on some studies with small numbers of Black patients and a long-ago false theory about differences in creatinine levels.
> Black Americans are over three times more likely than white people to experience kidney failure.
so, is some racial metric reasonable or not? why are black Americans more likely to experience kidney failure - social issue, or biological?
was the study with a small number of participants repeated with a larger number?!
Kidney failure is caused/aggravated by diabetes, hypertension/high blood pressure, and stress. All of these have a major environmental / social factor.
Higher rate of obesity as well, which mostly explains the diabetes and hypertension. Obesity and diabetes are certainly environmental/social as you put it, but hypertension in people of African descent probably also has a genetic component in addition to the rest.
> Race isn’t a biological factor like age, sex or weight — it’s a social construct.
Interesting conjecture there AP, but I don't buy it. Surely race is a biological factor. Maybe not for kidney health specifically but wouldn't race be inextricably tied to a person's biology, heritage, medical history?
Race is determined at birth by parents' biology, therefore is biological. Not _everything_ that makes people different from one another is a purely social construct.
Don't black people get sickle cell at higher rates than other races? Race is important in a lot of medical contexts.
Great that they fixed the kidney thing but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, or the next headline will be "excess deaths due to incorrect treatment of <condition> for <race>".
By all means if the race-based heuristics are unsound, throw them out, but the article makes mention of a bunch more that are under scrutiny. Are they really all inaccurate or are we discounting biology in favor of social justice?
> Don't black people get sickle cell at higher rates than other races?
Except that "black people" describes the color of someone's skin, and sickle cell prevalence is more properly tied to things that are much more specific than skin color, like the geographic origins of sickle cell disease. Which is why black people in Ethiopia and South Africa have low prevalence, and white people on mediterranean towns like Orchomenos have high prevalence. It's your social construct that lumps the idea of "black people" into a racial category in the first place and then associates that with sickle cell disease.
Playing Devil's Advocate here - how about recommended levels of vitamin D? That's directly influenced by pigmentation.
Or melanoma? According to this, "white, non-hispanic" people develop melanoma at a rate of 26.1 per 100k while "black, non-hispanic" people develop it at a rate of 0.8 per 100k.
It seems apparent to me that there are at least _some_ cases where the social construct of "race" is useful in a clinical setting.
I appreciate this, thanks. Sure, sickle cell was a really quick example and definitely highlights my presuppositions here. It was the best one I could come up with off the top of my head.
But it seems we agree that my highly generalized social construct wouldn't invalidate the biological factors at play that expose more specific racial groups to higher/lower risk of certain conditions.
My fear is that we have to make certain we are only removing the social constructs and not the biological ones when we purge racial considerations from medicine. Quality of patient care will inevitably suffer otherwise.
You can group populations in a huge number of ways. By culture, genomes, by skin tone, by language, by size, by hair color, by attempts at testing intelligence whatever. Many of these are hereditary to various degrees, and many of these correlate to various diseases and social outcomes. That's not in serious dispute.
But race is just one specific grouping. There's nothing magic about it. It's not even consistent over space or time what the categories are or who gets categorized into which. When people say race is constructed, one thing they are saying is that our culture has produced this one grouping dominates our thinking of the variability between humans. And that critically we have embedded that into our society in a way that creates outcomes based on race.
When it comes to disease, "black" in particular is a TERRIBLE category, because there are a huge number of population groups that all get labelled black, even though they have different genetics, different issues, different ethnic behaviors. It's maybe hard to to better in the US given that the slave trade erased people's knowledge of where they came from and accelerated mixing. But also nobody is really trying to do better because racial categorization and anti-blackness is so embedded in American thinking. Compare this situation to where "white" Americans often know (or at least have some way to try to know some fraction) of their European ancestry.
And 'in reverse' in the higher northern and southern hemispheres vitamin-D deficiency and the ailments that come with that are more prevalent among those with darker skin than among those with lighter skin tones.
If race is biological, then "black" isn't one. There is approximately the same amount of genetic diversity within the "black" race as there is within the entire human population.
If you define "race" to mean a population with a similar genetic diversity as Caucasians, then there are 4 to 5 black races within Africa alone.
Sickle cell disease is caused by a mutation in the HBB gene, not by belonging to a specific race. Race is a social construct, meaning it's defined by social factors rather than strictly biological ones. Since someone who is Black in the US often has about 20% European ancestry, how does this compare to someone who is directly from an African country? Where is the line?
>Race is a social construct, meaning it's defined by social factors rather than strictly biological ones.
that sounds like if a child grows in different social environment it may have different skin color, eye shape and other attributes ascribed to the race. Btw, in USSR in 194x-195x similar theory was a prevalent biological theory (professor Lysenko) greatly supported by the Communist Party against the "bourgeois theory of genetics", and the people who dared to challenge that theory were ostracized, fired, sent to GULAG.
> Race is determined at birth by parents' biology, therefore is biological.
I need to ask: what is race, specifically?
Living beings don't inherit traits in a consistent manner, otherwise all siblings would have been identical.
Most likely there are people who have parents of different skin tones who inherited the darker of the two but not the vulnerability to sickle cell anemia.
In my amateur worldview your "race" is the manner in which you inherit genetic traits from your parents. Skin color is perhaps the most unimportant of these traits.
Actually looking this up, seems the notion of race as social vs biological is hotly contested. This is new to me! Fair to say it's a social construct with a biological cause and potential biological implications, then?
I'm all for knocking down biases, just don't want to throw out good data in the process. What's the margin of error on dark skinned people with sickle cell?
Or perhaps more relevant - black people's kidneys were thought to be _healthier_ when it turns out they're 3x more likely to have kidney disease. At first glance this sounds like a very large error but I'm interested in how much of that is biological vs societal risk. Is it really as big of an error as it sounds? What if they start out with healthier kidneys, the +3x comes from somewhere else, and we're correcting far too late in the game when we jostle the transplant line?
Race is a political construct that varies in definition by country, culture, and year. (See how race is defined in places like Mexico and Brazil vs the US for example). People of the same race can much more variation in genetics that people of the same area. Where you live is actually a much better predictor of your genes (yeah it's correlated but obviously it's not the same thing)
Race is roughly correlated with ancestry especially in places where mating between races was discouraged. So often race is a close enough measure of family history, but make no mistake, there is no pure members of a race.
If there is a biological race like construct it doesn't match with whatever races your country's census records.
Race has to be a biological factor. Some of my family were on the transplant list for a long time, due to PKD. Throughout those many years there was a constant call for more Black donors.
There's two sides to that - autosomal dominant polycystic kidney disease is more common in black people, and black people are also significantly less likely to be organ donors.
Human genetic diversity doesn’t map on to American conceptions of race. Africa has among the highest levels of genetic and phenotypic variation of any region, for example. If anything, the reverse is true: clinging to 19th century pseudoscience and its bogus racial categories is an impediment to scientific understanding of biological reality.
Nonetheless, if a condition is much more prevalent within a particular population (whether due to genotype or phenotype) then membership of that population is diagnostically relevant, regardless of the absolute level of genetic diversity with the population.
Black people are much more likely to have sickle cell disease. White people are much more likely to have melanoma. Ashkenazi Jews (and the Cajun) are much more likely to have Tay-Sachs.
To me it seems reasonable that many diseases are more or less common based on race. But our concept and specially NA concept is not nearly fine-grained enough for it to work in many cases. Looking at Europe it seems there are differences even inside countries and groups that now are considered single ethnicity. So what would be needed is to track back to that level of history of population.
Readit News
> Race isn’t a biological factor like age, sex or weight — it’s a social construct.
> In 1999, an equation used to calculate eGFR was modified to adjust Black people’s results compared to everyone else’s, based on some studies with small numbers of Black patients and a long-ago false theory about differences in creatinine levels.
> Black Americans are over three times more likely than white people to experience kidney failure.
so, is some racial metric reasonable or not? why are black Americans more likely to experience kidney failure - social issue, or biological?
was the study with a small number of participants repeated with a larger number?!
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6429313/
Deleted Comment
Deleted Comment
Interesting conjecture there AP, but I don't buy it. Surely race is a biological factor. Maybe not for kidney health specifically but wouldn't race be inextricably tied to a person's biology, heritage, medical history?
Race is determined at birth by parents' biology, therefore is biological. Not _everything_ that makes people different from one another is a purely social construct.
Don't black people get sickle cell at higher rates than other races? Race is important in a lot of medical contexts.
Great that they fixed the kidney thing but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, or the next headline will be "excess deaths due to incorrect treatment of <condition> for <race>".
By all means if the race-based heuristics are unsound, throw them out, but the article makes mention of a bunch more that are under scrutiny. Are they really all inaccurate or are we discounting biology in favor of social justice?
Except that "black people" describes the color of someone's skin, and sickle cell prevalence is more properly tied to things that are much more specific than skin color, like the geographic origins of sickle cell disease. Which is why black people in Ethiopia and South Africa have low prevalence, and white people on mediterranean towns like Orchomenos have high prevalence. It's your social construct that lumps the idea of "black people" into a racial category in the first place and then associates that with sickle cell disease.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3708126/
https://web.archive.org/web/20140917070248/https://www.thegu...
Or melanoma? According to this, "white, non-hispanic" people develop melanoma at a rate of 26.1 per 100k while "black, non-hispanic" people develop it at a rate of 0.8 per 100k.
It seems apparent to me that there are at least _some_ cases where the social construct of "race" is useful in a clinical setting.
But it seems we agree that my highly generalized social construct wouldn't invalidate the biological factors at play that expose more specific racial groups to higher/lower risk of certain conditions.
My fear is that we have to make certain we are only removing the social constructs and not the biological ones when we purge racial considerations from medicine. Quality of patient care will inevitably suffer otherwise.
But race is just one specific grouping. There's nothing magic about it. It's not even consistent over space or time what the categories are or who gets categorized into which. When people say race is constructed, one thing they are saying is that our culture has produced this one grouping dominates our thinking of the variability between humans. And that critically we have embedded that into our society in a way that creates outcomes based on race.
When it comes to disease, "black" in particular is a TERRIBLE category, because there are a huge number of population groups that all get labelled black, even though they have different genetics, different issues, different ethnic behaviors. It's maybe hard to to better in the US given that the slave trade erased people's knowledge of where they came from and accelerated mixing. But also nobody is really trying to do better because racial categorization and anti-blackness is so embedded in American thinking. Compare this situation to where "white" Americans often know (or at least have some way to try to know some fraction) of their European ancestry.
Yes; e.g. melanoma is 30x more prevalent in non-Hispanic white people than in black people.
If you define "race" to mean a population with a similar genetic diversity as Caucasians, then there are 4 to 5 black races within Africa alone.
that sounds like if a child grows in different social environment it may have different skin color, eye shape and other attributes ascribed to the race. Btw, in USSR in 194x-195x similar theory was a prevalent biological theory (professor Lysenko) greatly supported by the Communist Party against the "bourgeois theory of genetics", and the people who dared to challenge that theory were ostracized, fired, sent to GULAG.
I need to ask: what is race, specifically?
Living beings don't inherit traits in a consistent manner, otherwise all siblings would have been identical.
Most likely there are people who have parents of different skin tones who inherited the darker of the two but not the vulnerability to sickle cell anemia.
Actually looking this up, seems the notion of race as social vs biological is hotly contested. This is new to me! Fair to say it's a social construct with a biological cause and potential biological implications, then?
I'm all for knocking down biases, just don't want to throw out good data in the process. What's the margin of error on dark skinned people with sickle cell?
Or perhaps more relevant - black people's kidneys were thought to be _healthier_ when it turns out they're 3x more likely to have kidney disease. At first glance this sounds like a very large error but I'm interested in how much of that is biological vs societal risk. Is it really as big of an error as it sounds? What if they start out with healthier kidneys, the +3x comes from somewhere else, and we're correcting far too late in the game when we jostle the transplant line?
Clusters on the biological spectrum of the human species formed on the basis of easily recognizable superficial phenotypical traits?
Race is roughly correlated with ancestry especially in places where mating between races was discouraged. So often race is a close enough measure of family history, but make no mistake, there is no pure members of a race.
If there is a biological race like construct it doesn't match with whatever races your country's census records.
Black people are much more likely to have sickle cell disease. White people are much more likely to have melanoma. Ashkenazi Jews (and the Cajun) are much more likely to have Tay-Sachs.
Dead Comment
Deleted Comment
How would cystic fibrosis pick its targets based on a social construct? Look up its very imbalanced prevalence.
So, if the prevalence of cystic fibrosis is indeed race-based, then we can't just assume that kidney function isn't.
Dead Comment
Deleted Comment