What is great about these overreaches is how it keeps eroding the blind trust that many "rule of law" societies have towards their institutions and rules.
Extreme parties advocating extreme measures are on the rise, marginal groups having oversized exposure and influence in those societies, informalization of social relationships.
At some point Europeans need to feel comfortable living like many do in Asia, Africa an South America: at the edge of the law and "decency".
> In a recent regulatory development, cryptocurrency payments of any size using unidentified self-custody crypto wallets are now illegal in the European Union (EU).
Payments are illegal (not wallets), and only if the sender/receivers are not identified (that is, you can ask for identification before transfers from those wallets are made).
It also has not entered into force, and I don't think it has completed approvals yet - as far as I understand the EU Council still also need to approve it, but I might be wrong about that part.
Not really. What’s the point of a wallet if payments can’t be made to it? Effectively this forces a wallet to be 1) identified, or 2) be effectively lost.
Well payments can be made, just not anonymous. If you want to receive from those wallets, you have to identify the sender (i.e. ask for ID). There is no mention of a global database where you have to put the ID data, you just have to keep it on your own records.
Just do what the “elite” do - and use gold sovereigns, instead. Each “coin” has a “face value” of just £1 sterling - but worth approximately £402, at spot.
It really blows my mind that this would even been considered acceptable in a civilized society… the fundamental right to privacy should be inalienable. When are we as a people going to say “enough is enough”?
I really hope somebody sues and I am really curious how this plays out in court. To me Crypto can be abstracted, to anything that has a value and can be exchanged. Gold comes to mind, also art, anything really. Where is the difference in holding Bitcoin in a self hosted wallet vs storing gold under the bed?
It doesn't matter whether in some abstract way crypto is similar to gold.
In a practical way, crypto is super useful for extortion schemes, blackmail, money laundering, tax evasion, etc. It is way easier to use than gold.
At the same time, there are very few use cases where crypto is useful for law-abiding citizens. Using a commercial service like wise.com is way safer than using crypto for almost anybody.
So the authorities don't really have an incentive to allow crypto, and I've been wondering for years why nobody has forbidden it yet.
> In a practical way, crypto is super useful for extortion schemes, blackmail, money laundering, tax evasion, etc. It is way easier to use than gold.
All of this existed before crypto and will not disappear when crypto is banned.
> At the same time, there are very few use cases where crypto is useful for law-abiding citizens. Using a commercial service like wise.com is way safer than using crypto for almost anybody.
It's funny that you mentioned wise. They just kicked me out for no reason. I know they kick you out if you buy crypto through them, but I didn't do that.
So there is absolutely an usecase for a cash like currency for the internet. It's my money and I should be able to spent it however I want, without a private payment processor enforcing their beliefs on me. If I want to donate to WikiLeaks or buy crypto I should be able to do so since it is not illegal.
Something I wonder about such attempts is, that as soon they push cryptocurrencies into the more and more shady terrain, the sooner people might start to use them for paying without converting them to normal currencies.
Like for example, someone does a thing for someone else (maybe helps them with some task or does some kind of commission, or even some real world thing) they give them a token of some crypto currency as payment. Then they take that token to the next person and pay them with that token for another service, item, whatever.
Everything without even paying a dime of real world tax. That might be really dangerous and could destroy societies if governments don't make money anymore to do stuff for their people.
Well this is already possible with cash (and some countries more than others have flourishing grey and black market economies where business is conducted with it)
So crypto only helps here if the service you're providing is over the internet, and not using an intermediary platform which is a legit business for payments, escrow, or service fulfillment tracking (so things like etsy, bandcamp, fiverr, and upwork are mostly out, though you sometimes can cut out the middleman on those platforms).
There are a few services people will still arrange outside of a platform, I think online sex work is a big one (also because people don't want things linked to their credit cards)
But it could also be useful in countries that are moving to ban cash
Readit News
Extreme parties advocating extreme measures are on the rise, marginal groups having oversized exposure and influence in those societies, informalization of social relationships.
At some point Europeans need to feel comfortable living like many do in Asia, Africa an South America: at the edge of the law and "decency".
> In a recent regulatory development, cryptocurrency payments of any size using unidentified self-custody crypto wallets are now illegal in the European Union (EU).
Payments are illegal (not wallets), and only if the sender/receivers are not identified (that is, you can ask for identification before transfers from those wallets are made).
What exactly do you believe is the point of a crypto wallet?
> only if the sender/receivers are not identified
What do you think “anonymous” means?
I ask because I’m genuinely confused as to how anything you just said contradicts the title
For 99% of users? Speculative investment into pump-and-dump schemes.
https://twitter.com/echo_pbreyer/status/1770853123633877233
Edit: I think this guy, which mind you is a member of parliament, just confused hosted with self-hosted. We're so fucked
In a practical way, crypto is super useful for extortion schemes, blackmail, money laundering, tax evasion, etc. It is way easier to use than gold.
At the same time, there are very few use cases where crypto is useful for law-abiding citizens. Using a commercial service like wise.com is way safer than using crypto for almost anybody.
So the authorities don't really have an incentive to allow crypto, and I've been wondering for years why nobody has forbidden it yet.
All of this existed before crypto and will not disappear when crypto is banned.
> At the same time, there are very few use cases where crypto is useful for law-abiding citizens. Using a commercial service like wise.com is way safer than using crypto for almost anybody.
It's funny that you mentioned wise. They just kicked me out for no reason. I know they kick you out if you buy crypto through them, but I didn't do that.
So there is absolutely an usecase for a cash like currency for the internet. It's my money and I should be able to spent it however I want, without a private payment processor enforcing their beliefs on me. If I want to donate to WikiLeaks or buy crypto I should be able to do so since it is not illegal.
And the answer is simple: Gold can be controlled less and above 10k the law says you have to declare it.
The EU is unfortunately not the US.
Suing governments there, much less the EU govt itself is not really something that is "done".
Most funny things about this: You cannot prevent anyone from sending you anything (in most Cryptos).
This is a very real nail in Crypto's coffin.
Deleted Comment
Like for example, someone does a thing for someone else (maybe helps them with some task or does some kind of commission, or even some real world thing) they give them a token of some crypto currency as payment. Then they take that token to the next person and pay them with that token for another service, item, whatever.
Everything without even paying a dime of real world tax. That might be really dangerous and could destroy societies if governments don't make money anymore to do stuff for their people.
So crypto only helps here if the service you're providing is over the internet, and not using an intermediary platform which is a legit business for payments, escrow, or service fulfillment tracking (so things like etsy, bandcamp, fiverr, and upwork are mostly out, though you sometimes can cut out the middleman on those platforms).
There are a few services people will still arrange outside of a platform, I think online sex work is a big one (also because people don't want things linked to their credit cards)
But it could also be useful in countries that are moving to ban cash