It sounds like what you're saying is that Apple should not list any company that does not create a direct contract with them and guarantee provision of accurate information?
To me that would imply small businesses that can't afford the time to go through such a process would be hard pressed to stay listed.
Apple should not publish false information that unfairly damages other companies' business. When they do so, they should compensate those other companies, and accept that as a cost of being in the publishing-information-about-other-companies business. If Apple can't afford to publish accurate information about every business then yes they should publish only information that they've specifically confirmed, or refrain from publishing at all.
I would hope that any such lawsuit would be thrown out, unless this is a particularly widespread issue, or Apple intended to harm this business. This seems like an honest mistake on Apple's part, perhaps because someone reported the business as closed.
What do you want Apple to do? Personally verify every edit to every business on Maps?
> What do you want Apple to do? Personally verify every edit to every business on Maps?
I don't really understand why that would be too big of an ask for one of the wealthiest companies in the world, but at the very least, I'd expect Apple to yield to the authority of the business operator when changing the status to closed. Seems like a pretty solid reason for a lawsuit imo. I'm sure Apple would feel the same way if someone changed all of the Apple store retail locations to "Permanently Closed" on Google Maps and nobody checked it.
The business owner attempted to notify Apple and struggled to do so. The news organization notified them by way of asking for comment and Apple still got the location of the business wrong. How honest does an honest mistake have to be before you can sue for restitution, even if it only amounts to a small claim?
Almost every car accident is an honest mistake. Does that mean that the at fault driver should not have to fix the harm caused because they didn’t mean to cause it?
We used to have something in Australia called the Yellow Pages (actually we still do) and every business would register to be in it. Can't see why Apple can't do the same thing.
No one cares what they "intended" to do, only what was done.
> What do you want Apple to do?
I want them to pay the guy who they harmed.
> Personally verify every edit to every business on Maps?
That's absolutely right. This isn't Open Street Maps where anyone including the business owner himself can edit the information. Apple's reponsible for this.
Does Apple not have a business listing management system?
On Google Maps anyone can submit a correction. Business owners can also sign up for an account, verify ownership with a mailed postcard, and then claim and protect their listing from rogue edits.
> With Google Maps, there's level system, where people with higher level can fix these issues easier...
I'm level 6/10 in that system (several hundred contributions, a few million views) and it's totally hit or miss for me. Some edits go through instantly, others take a few minutes, some take a few weeks or months. Some are peer reviewed, others aren't. It's not a very transparent system and there's no way to track them once you submit it, you just eventually get an email (or not) if it goes through or is rejected.
On an article about a business incorrectly marked as "closed" you're suggesting that expecting some basic confirmation about a change, is unreasonable?
>Apple today introduced Apple Business Connect, a free tool that allows businesses of all sizes to claim their location place cards and customize the way key information appears to more than a billion Apple users across Apple Maps, Messages, Wallet, Siri, and other apps.
Google Maps recently changed our street name... to something that doesn't match what's on the sign (the word that was at the end is now at the beginning). We've had multiple failed deliveries because there are multiple "nearest neighbour" matches while the correct match doesn't show up for most searches. Submitting a report hasn't resulted in a response. Argh. So much of tech seems to be a constant uphill battle wasting time these days.
I make something of a hobby out of filing Apple Maps corrections. Partly for my own reference, partly to support businesses (especially ones I really love), and partly just because there are lots of opportunities to do so because it isn't google maps, and it's fun to see one accepted, like a little game
To their credit, they're usually quick to turn around and update the info (or follow up for additional evidence that the correction is accurate)
Please consider contributing to Open Street Maps as well. Our contributions are much more valuable there. Someone on HN got me started with OSM by suggesting I try Street Complete. Days later I was capturing GPS tracks and verifying the map correctness. Turned out to be a surprisingly accurate map. Then I downloaded mobile mapping apps and started improving roads, adding metadata to stuff. Then I downloaded JOSM...
Once upon a time I used to add data to Google Maps because they dangled some bullshit Google Drive space in front of me as a reward. No longer.
I have an Apple Maps issue I can't figure out how to file a report of.
I live at 123 My Street, and there's a nearby 123 East My Street about two miles north.
If I say "Hey Siri, directions to Home", and I'm north of both of them, it'll direct me to the wrong place. If I'm south, it'll take me to the correct home. (The closest one, it'd seem.) Same thing even if I type the exact correct address into Apple Maps.
Why would you spend your time and effort to support a trillion dollar company like Apple, or restaurant owners who don't care about their own business? Both these parties can afford to do it themselves.
> there was still a major problem. "The pin drop on the map is wrong," Mr Pyatt said.
So there's a good chance someone didn't locate the restaurant at the indicated location, then as a result, marked it closed.
No idea how that happened of course, and the article does report that even people correctly using the business owner tools to try to fix it are unsuccessful, but it does show how keeping your maps entries up to date is both critical for small physical businesses, and hard for many of them.
It's also important to keep your business hours up to date on any mapping platform commonly used in your area. Having out of date business hours not only loses customers or frustrates them, a customer standing in front of the business while it's supposed to be open according to the maps entry but is actually closed might press the button to mark it as "permanently closed" either because they confused it with the proper button, or out of spite because they're frustrated that they went there in vain. Sure, map providers should have a review process for it, but the graveyards are filled with people who had the right of way, and it will affect your business much more than theirs if you get hit by this.
Apple listed my business as temporarily closed and removed my physical address from their map database without any consultation from me. I'm now living and working in a paddock, road gone!
All other competitors services are showing accurately.
I have no recourse other than to look into legal action and have been in touch with local media to try and rally against this.
Apple have been unhelpful and don't grasp the concept that if I'm trying to claim my business to correct the map issue (their suggestion) that they can't keep rejecting this claim because they can't locate my business on their map went through several "levels" and none of them could understand the dilemma. Was advised there may be no favourable outcome.
To anyone who thinks this is totally acceptable, politely get bent.
They are 100% trying to force people into their services and what they require doesn't match the business laws of the country they are operating in.
Apple Maps business listings are woefully unreliable. Much less likely to have data (hours, phone/website, existence...) and what data is there is often stale. Only reason I use it is to avoid installing Google apps and IME OSM[1] is even worse. If I actually depended on maps for anything important on a regular basis there's no question I'd be using Google.
This is very unfortunate, and I hope the restaurant can recover.
Apple could do better here to make it easier for restaurant owners to keep their information up-to-date. I imagine this situation would be particularly frustrating for anyone non-technical.
I think that errors like these are inevitable, though. It's probably not possible to map the entire world's restaurants without making mistakes.
Readit News
Apple's terms and EULA don't matter, because the injured party is not an Apple customer.
To me that would imply small businesses that can't afford the time to go through such a process would be hard pressed to stay listed.
The deep pockets and scale of the damage Big Corp can do against a small player is extensive.
I would hope that any such lawsuit would be thrown out, unless this is a particularly widespread issue, or Apple intended to harm this business. This seems like an honest mistake on Apple's part, perhaps because someone reported the business as closed.
What do you want Apple to do? Personally verify every edit to every business on Maps?
I don't really understand why that would be too big of an ask for one of the wealthiest companies in the world, but at the very least, I'd expect Apple to yield to the authority of the business operator when changing the status to closed. Seems like a pretty solid reason for a lawsuit imo. I'm sure Apple would feel the same way if someone changed all of the Apple store retail locations to "Permanently Closed" on Google Maps and nobody checked it.
Why do people act like human moderation would be such an untenable burden? These tech companies are GIGANTIC, they can afford to do human moderation.
Almost every car accident is an honest mistake. Does that mean that the at fault driver should not have to fix the harm caused because they didn’t mean to cause it?
Rarity of the event does not comfort the victim.
> or Apple intended to harm this business
No one cares what they "intended" to do, only what was done.
> What do you want Apple to do?
I want them to pay the guy who they harmed.
> Personally verify every edit to every business on Maps?
That's absolutely right. This isn't Open Street Maps where anyone including the business owner himself can edit the information. Apple's reponsible for this.
Deleted Comment
On Google Maps anyone can submit a correction. Business owners can also sign up for an account, verify ownership with a mailed postcard, and then claim and protect their listing from rogue edits.
How does it work on Apple?
A friend these days reported that a Starbucks closed¹. Apple ignored the report, said it needed additional info...
He had to take a photo and send it, only them they approved...
With Google Maps, there's level system, where people with higher level can fix these issues easier... Not sure if Apple do the same.
[1] https://www.threads.net/@willianmax/post/C2P9nweren4
I'm level 6/10 in that system (several hundred contributions, a few million views) and it's totally hit or miss for me. Some edits go through instantly, others take a few minutes, some take a few weeks or months. Some are peer reviewed, others aren't. It's not a very transparent system and there's no way to track them once you submit it, you just eventually get an email (or not) if it goes through or is rejected.
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2023/01/introducing-apple-bus...
>Apple today introduced Apple Business Connect, a free tool that allows businesses of all sizes to claim their location place cards and customize the way key information appears to more than a billion Apple users across Apple Maps, Messages, Wallet, Siri, and other apps.
https://businessconnect.apple.com/
To their credit, they're usually quick to turn around and update the info (or follow up for additional evidence that the correction is accurate)
Once upon a time I used to add data to Google Maps because they dangled some bullshit Google Drive space in front of me as a reward. No longer.
Van you explain why JOSM ? Never tried. I've used most mobile editors and the Web Id editor.
I live at 123 My Street, and there's a nearby 123 East My Street about two miles north.
If I say "Hey Siri, directions to Home", and I'm north of both of them, it'll direct me to the wrong place. If I'm south, it'll take me to the correct home. (The closest one, it'd seem.) Same thing even if I type the exact correct address into Apple Maps.
If they are in the same city you could ask the city to rename your street 123 My Street South or something?
So there's a good chance someone didn't locate the restaurant at the indicated location, then as a result, marked it closed.
No idea how that happened of course, and the article does report that even people correctly using the business owner tools to try to fix it are unsuccessful, but it does show how keeping your maps entries up to date is both critical for small physical businesses, and hard for many of them.
It's also important to keep your business hours up to date on any mapping platform commonly used in your area. Having out of date business hours not only loses customers or frustrates them, a customer standing in front of the business while it's supposed to be open according to the maps entry but is actually closed might press the button to mark it as "permanently closed" either because they confused it with the proper button, or out of spite because they're frustrated that they went there in vain. Sure, map providers should have a review process for it, but the graveyards are filled with people who had the right of way, and it will affect your business much more than theirs if you get hit by this.
[1] OpenStreetMap
Apple could do better here to make it easier for restaurant owners to keep their information up-to-date. I imagine this situation would be particularly frustrating for anyone non-technical.
I think that errors like these are inevitable, though. It's probably not possible to map the entire world's restaurants without making mistakes.
They have a portal at https://businessconnect.apple.com.
I just updated a business and it took about 30s.