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Posted by u/manoj_SprintsQ 2 years ago
Ask HN: How do you keep going without burning out?
Hey folks! Daily social media is part of my routine to spread the word about what I'm working on. It's awesome to see everyone's wins—it lights a fire under me. But then I hit overdrive and burn out. Takes me weeks to feel normal again. Does this happen to you? How do you keep up your energy?
navs · 2 years ago
I've quit my job from burnout multiple times and on the 3rd iteration, it's been even more difficult to get back to a non-burnout stage. So I would try to focus on a long term strategy as opposed to bursts of productivity.

I've had to slow down. This means reducing all the things that distract me. It means coming to grips with "missing out".

I've leaned into some life hacks like:

- Designating social media time to just after work but not after dinner (includes HN).

- Leaning into meditation. Not just 10min via an app but a walk to and back from my favorite cafe every morning without my phone or any headphones.

- Going to bed early and waking up early. The quietest, non-distracting moments are in the early morning.

- Using a pomodoro timer. For both work projects and personal projects.

- I try to spend some time focusing on activities that are intentionally slow like writing poetry and personal essays.

_nalply · 2 years ago
- Avoid bright light after dinner

- Religiously take off the weekends

- Take several days off about six times a year (for example a long weekend, however to avoid crowds, sometimes take off during the workweek)

- And once a year for at least two weeks

- Don't do too much in the free time or have buffers of dolce far niente between work and busy free time

riffraff · 2 years ago
I like my audiobooks during my morning walk, but other than that I'd subscribe to this suggestions.

I think you hit the nail on the head with "dealing with missing out".

The vast majority of what happens is irrelevant and trying to keep up with, say, the latest tech drama, the latest framework, the scandal du jour, the currently popular TV show.. it feels important but it's not, and giving up is hard but not harmful.

mawadev · 2 years ago
I'd add to this: going outside and meeting people. Hearing the story of someone else will reframe your mind about how insignificant work really is.
Simon_ORourke · 2 years ago
Not being flippant about it, but my current requirements to pay the mortgage and support my wife and kids tend to push any sense of burnout down the priority list. I simply decide to keep plugging away, because if I stop to "find myself" things can get bad for lots of other people quickly.
gherkinnn · 2 years ago
That's not how it works. If burnout is indeed looming over you, it does not care how far down you push it on your lists. It will get you. And then you and your dependents are proper fucked.

The only thing to do is to meet it on your own timeline, not its.

paulcole · 2 years ago
How do you personally define “burnout”?
BossingAround · 2 years ago
Sounds like a bad time if the burnout actually comes in full force and you have dependents + mortgage. All the more reason to actually research what burnout is and how to avoid it if you ask me.

What you wrote is like saying "well, I'll just work through the pain" when someone asks about avoiding heart attack. That's not how heart attacks work, and that's not how burnout works either.

tazard · 2 years ago
All due respect, this isn't burn out. This is boredom or being uninspired. It can be a drudge, uninteresting, and procrastinated, but actual burnout is a very different beast.

I have mortgage, wife, kids also and continue to plug along, but know the difference.

raffraffraff · 2 years ago
I had that, for years. That's not too say that I hated my job and was suffering. But it was stressful and I had collected to many unpaid extra responsibilities over years in a startup. But my number one goal was paying off my mortgage, becoming debt free and saving a nest egg, so I didn't really think about whether or not I really loved my job.

I got to my goal through a combination of good luck, hard work and other life choices (eg we have no kids, no car and are frugal for co² emission reduction). I also predicted the house prices crash of 2008 (not the whole thing, but definitely within my country) and waited for years while my friends bought vault overpriced properties way out of town. Then I watched the house prices tumble to decades low prices before grabbing an absolute bargain. That was one part of the luck. The other was the startup being acquired, but I got fucked on the stock, so it only just about covered my remaining debt. So I kept working and building a nest egg.

I did switch companies after a while and I spend another 2 years helping to build another startup. But one stressful day in the middle of a fundamental disagreement with my CTO, I just blurted out "I'm sorry, but think I quit!" I talked it through over the weekend with my wife, and confirmed it on the Monday.

After 20 years of unbroken employment I took 6 months off. I had all these plans for what I'd do (mostly tech side projects that I didn't have time for) but only achieved 10% of it because I was having so much fun doing DIY, gardening, running...

Up to that point in my life I was soooo tech focused. But after realizing that I could "insta-quit" at any time and do zero tech, I did worry that I had broken myself. But strangely enough I found myself working with another startup and absolutely loving it.

I realized that I need other people to need my expertise. Even though I love what I do, I find that I can't do it simply for myself. Work is a necessary "evil" that allows me to have my tech hobby. I just approach it differently now. I'm careful about who I work with and what they're building. Oh, and I also work 3.5 days a week now, so no more burnout.

dmos62 · 2 years ago
What makes you able to work less than the standard week? Thanks for sharing by the way.
dmos62 · 2 years ago
This is like saying you won't change the oil, because the car is important to you. On the plus side, whatever burnout you're experiencing hasn't yet reached the later stages where one's functioning is super degraded or just halts. And, to be honest it sounds like it's not yet affecting your family life either, or you're not aware of it yet. Good place to be. An especially good place to look at prevention too. Recovery from advanced stages of burnout takes years. And if an episode catches you unawares (meaning you don't yet have a habit of recovering while functioning from a severe episode) it can bulldoze you for months. Do you have a financial buffer for that?
langsoul-com · 2 years ago
You can do this for a while, but sometime later, that tiny ember could turn into an inferno.
sylvain_kerkour · 2 years ago
One word: Alignment.

It's a Buddhist concept that says that to achieve tranquility (end of suffering) you need to have what you value, what you think and what you are actually doing aligned and going in the same direction.

When you're feeling lost, ask yourself these 3 questions:

- What do you really want?

- What do you really value?

- What are you really doing with your life?

I've wrote a longer post that you can read here: https://kerkour.com/alignment

t-writescode · 2 years ago
Hey, so I've got a few thoughts here that I'll word. I'm sure other people are going to say it better, but here we go:

* Remember that Social Media is the place that everyone shows 'their absolute best' - even a fake version of their best. It doesn't show their times of down, their stress, and so on.

* the social media that you're using may connect thousands or hundreds of thousands of people together. There's only 365 days a year, and even if each person only has one good day a year that they show off, 273 people (out of 100k) would share each individual day. It'd look like you're going slow.

* As other people have said, life is a marathon, not a sprint. You've got a whole lot of years left and you want to be able to function in them, too. Burnout can absolutely ruin developers, and has, many times in the past.

* As other people have said, "work to live", don't "live to work". Now, I get the feeling that this is your personal project or your business you're running at. That's awesome! You still need to give yourself space between a singular project so you can recuperate from it. How often do you look at code you wrote or things you worked on when you were at a fever pace and go "wow, what was I thinking?"; or, when you couldn't solve a problem for days, go to bed and then hey, the solution is right there! Give yourself the space so that those events can happen - and they happen because you're getting away from the work, you're getting rested, you're relaxing.

Your health, your life, the connections you make are of incredible value and as you get older, they get harder to train, recover, grow. Make sure you're tending to yourself like you should in ways that are completely disconnected from your work.

brunooliv · 2 years ago
Make sure there's more to your life than only work. Work to live, don't live to work. I used to think this was bs, but, after scaling back on work hours and filling them up with time for my own hobbies and side projects all not work related, I think I'm even more productive at work than before
patrick451 · 2 years ago
I have been unable to make this strategy work. If I lean into hobbies and things outside of work, I completely stop caring about my job, and my performance goes way down.
henriquez · 2 years ago
I did burn out. One day I decided I had enough, I lost my temper at the douchebag CTO, I had a “talk” with the CEO and laid myself off after. Spent six months unemployed, and I don’t give a shit. Honestly quitting was the best decision I ever made. Life is to precious to waste on idiots.
shortcake27 · 2 years ago
I quit my job due to burnout over a year ago, and now I’m bumbling around Europe, living hand-to-mouth off small bits of freelance work. This life is infinitely better than the one I was wasting behind a desk 8 hours a day.

I don’t see the point making $150k a year if I’m literally exchanging my life for that money.

“Unemployment” is a dirty word, I think by design to keep people producing for the economy. It’s impressive how much of a stronghold this concept holds over people. How many people who already have more than enough, who could live out the rest of their lives literally doing whatever they want, instead continue to remain employed in a job they don’t like due to an irrational fear of unemployment?

pillefitz · 2 years ago
What kind of freelance work? Most dev gigs seem to be in the 1-2yrs range
henriquez · 2 years ago
I preferred to think of it as funemployment
jongjong · 2 years ago
I constantly feel like nothing I do is ever going to work out. Even if I built something in the best way possible, the best that exists, it's not going to be enough to succeed. But even though I know 100% deep in my soul that everything I do is going to fail, I can't stop myself from trying. It does take a toll though. What helps me is to let off steam by complaining non-stop. I complain to my family members and strangers online. Unfortunately, my condition means that I can't see friends regularly because it's difficult for me to NOT complain for even 1 hour straight and most fellow westerners just can't handle that. Every deep conversation I have devolves into some horror story about the ills of society and how everything is rigged.
n_ary · 2 years ago
I believe that you are indeed in not only burnout but also in severe stress and in situation where your hands are too tied and hence feel both immensely helpless and deceived. This is the vicious cycle which will cause not only mental health issues but also feed constant burnout.

I was also in similar situation and I indeed complained a lot, like everyone called me the most pessimist person in existence and some of my friends intentionally avoided me.

While I got some therapy which immensely helped, it is also important to find out about why you feel helpless and if something bad or regretful happened to you that left you scarred(took the therapy to realise and distance myself from that abyss…).

Rather than complaining, I eventually came to accept that the world is not just(read about just world fallacy) and everything is the way it is and will continue to devolve into more degrades state due to constant chaos nature of everything. All that is left to do in power is to enjoy myself with my family and friends and not try to save the world to enlighten others about obvious issues of the society and everything(believe me most everyone also sees and knows this but tends to be busy with their own life and tomorrow instead of getting down about the sinister nature of the world).

dmos62 · 2 years ago
Please excuse the unsolicited suggestion.

I recently learned a cognitive behavior technique where when you notice that you're demonizing something, you make an effort to find something good about it. As in, "I dislike this situation very much, but it's a nice learning opportunity", or "I miss a loved one that's died, but I sure have a lot of great memories with them". It can feel like gymnastics the first time, but then it clicks. The goal is to remember that each entity is multifaceted and complex, without putting on rose-tinted or doom-tinted glasses. Closing yourself off to that complexity that's inherent in everything is not worth it.

namaria · 2 years ago
I feel the same way. I have managed to cut down on doomerism and actually start cultivating friendships again.

I got a lot better at life when I started studying deep and ancient history in detail and figured out that there's been multiple worlds before this one. Many systems have been exercised and they all have a life cycle and eventually collapse.

Much like living beings, societies are born, mature and wither. It is inevitable that ours will collapse eventually. It isn't good or bad. It just is.

I've since embraced the roll of researching these life cycles.

drivebyadvice · 2 years ago
The metaphor I use to think about burnout is imagining your energy as a lithium ion battery. You can occasionally charge it to 100% and run it down to 0% without any real degradation, but if you start doing that every day it won't hold a useful charge after a while. Keep your charge between 20% and 80% if you can.

Also helps to maintain pretty firm limits on work time and not-work time, or even just having a small window of your waking day where you're on Do Not Disturb.