Ask HN: How to get back to programming Python?

geertj · 2 years ago

I stopped using Python professionally for a few years myself. The biggest changes I noticed or made myself:

- I used to do everything in vim, but now I adopted VSCode (usually with SSH-Remote) and it's been such an improvement to my productivity. Try to use the integrated test explorer and debugger.

- If you use type annotations (sparingly), your VSCode experience gets even better.

- Many projects use auto formatting with 'black' these days. Initially I was a bit grossed out by this, but I now love it. It frees me up from having to spend mental cycles on complex lines, and removes the friction when reviewing CRs. The one change I make is to have a slightly longer line length.

- pyproject.toml is a new project level config file. Try to only use that file for all your setup and tool configurations

- Since you said you last touched Python 15 years ago, we now have Python 3.x. Syntax is a lot cleaner. There are many smaller differences.

- async/await is new. It is pretty neat if you want to do async programming. Don't expect a major boost (or any boost) in performance over traditional threaded code, but you can expect much cleaner code.

- f-strings are pretty neat, I use them pervasively

- I'm not sure if these are already 15 years old, but "with" context managers are the primitive to use for cleaning up resources.

getpost · 2 years ago

In case you're not already aware, GPT4 et al write usable Python and can execute some Python code themselves for trying things out.

I find it much more pleasant to ask GPT4's advice and have it write sample code than it is to use web search, Stack Overflow, etc. Even when I know exactly what code to write, it's often faster to ask GPT4 to write it a certain way and then make minimal edits myself.

The paid version of GPT4 used to be the best, but lately the VSCode Insider GitHub Copilot produces comparable or identical results, since it uses GPT4. I have only one custom instruction, "If writing Python code, always use context managers where appropriate."

EDIT: If you don't want to hassle with maintaining a development environment, try Replit[0]. Their AI is not nearly as good as GPT4 though.

[0] https://replit.com/

lhl · 2 years ago

I'd strongly second the suggestion to use the paid (GPT-4 based) ChatGPT Code Interpreter. I've found it to be incredibly strong/useful for interactive Python coding and it does a very good job explaining itself. You can use the custom instructions like "I'm an experienced Ruby developer that last used Python in 2005" and it can provide much better results as well.

I've only poked briefly at it, but https://deepseekcoder.github.io/ evals as very strong at code and is probably the best open model available. You can chat with it for free w/ a signup (or run it yourself if you're looking for a project).

If you're looking to poke around with local models more easily, you can give KillianLucas/open-interpreter a try (in conjunction with LM Studio or w/ an OpenAI or Anthropic API key), it's pretty neat (be very careful with code execution, I'd recommend doing it in a sandbox lest you accidentally trash your system).

dumbmrblah · 2 years ago

I like open-interpreter, but be careful using GPT-4 API, you can quickly run up your bill using it.

strangesmells06 · 2 years ago

whats a context manager

getpost · 2 years ago

https://realpython.com/python-with-statement/

lhnz · 2 years ago

I felt the same way and recently did the whole 92 questions of CodeSignal's Python Arcade section (https://app.codesignal.com/arcade/python-arcade). This made me completely fluent on modern Python syntax and the questions themselves are very easy so can be done quickly. You are really only re-learning Python's syntax as opposed to doing hard algorithmic problems or anything like that (although I do recommend doing this as you'll be able to touch on Python's standard library more).

I guess the one thing that you don't get to do with that approach is build something interesting or use `async-await` but it gets you fluent with the syntax again which is an important first step.

gjvc · 2 years ago

(re)learn the tooling first; especially virtual environments [1], python 3 features. Wow at f-strings, smile at structural matching, enjoy the feel of tools like PyCharm.

Find a project to start from scratch, or find one to which to contribute. Read as much Python 3 code as you can to get your neurons firing.

[1] stick to venv, pip install, and pip freeze (time spent down the rabbit hole of packaging is time not spent actually coding)

spelunker · 2 years ago

re: virtual environments - Getting back to learning Python myself, started with `Pipenv`, but recently stumbled across Poetry. Recommendations on one vs the other?

tehnub · 2 years ago

Unless I'm making a "project" that I want to eventually package into an application or library, I prefer to just use pyenv with venv. Pyenv lets me pick my Python interpreter which I then use in conjunction with venv to create a virtual environment. For example, creating a venv with Python 3.9:

    pyenv local 3.9
    python -m venv my-env
    source my-env/bin/activate
    pip install [whatever I need]

nerpderp82 · 2 years ago

Find the "just right" packaging system will get someone nerdsniped, you can do that. Or you can do the commands below and get something running in 20 seconds using the built in tools. Nerdsnipe yourself later as an exercise.

    python -m venv myenv.env
    source myenv.env/bin/activate
    pip install -U pip setuptools wheel
    pip install ipython
    ipython<return> now repl away!

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claytonjy · 2 years ago

Definitely poetry; pipenv is not actively maintained and poetry is it's spiritual successor.

KolmogorovComp · 2 years ago

Poetry. Pipenv has a very bad reputation and most new projects that needs a more robust tooling than a simple “requirements.txt” use it.

This is also confirmed by my own experience.

savrajsingh · 2 years ago

I'm a pyenv + virtualenv person and that's worked well for many years. But it sounds like I'll need to have ChatGPT explain Poetry to me...

https://fathomtech.io/blog/python-environments-with-pyenv-an...

ensignavenger · 2 years ago

Personally, I like Poetry over pipenv, but preferences will vary. There are some other alternatives currently fighting for mindshare, too. It will be interesting to see where the dust settles.

spelunker · 2 years ago

Thanks for the input everyone. Clearly Python needs more tools lol

timeon · 2 years ago

There is also: https://github.com/mitsuhiko/rye

nylonstrung · 2 years ago

I've tried both and actually prefer PDM the most by far

shrimpx · 2 years ago

Poetry is the way to go.

mlitwiniuk · 2 years ago

Thanks. Any examples of Python 3 code worth looking at?

matroid · 2 years ago

Don't know if its worth looking at, but you can look at my code: https://github.com/Vrroom/vectorrvnn :)

georgespencer · 2 years ago

I can't speak highly enough of Miguel Grinberg's work with Python/Flask (https://blog.miguelgrinberg.com/post/the-flask-mega-tutorial...) and the community he's created around it, for both beginners and advanced folks.

Racing through his mega tutorial was a great refresher for me on the fundamentals, and it's easy to plug in computer vision & related libraries/extensions/packages.

simonw · 2 years ago

If you sign up for ChatGPT Plus ($20/month) you get access to Code Interpreter, which lets GPT-4 write Python code and then execute it in a sandbox environment and show you the results.

It's an incredible tool for learning Python, because it means you can explore all kinds of new tricks and see the results instantly - directly from your browser (or even on your phone).

I have 20+ years of Python experience and I use Code Interpreter mode to try things out several times a day. I think it's an incredible tool for learning.

I wrote a bit more about it here: https://simonwillison.net/2023/Sep/29/llms-podcast/#code-int...

purpleblue · 2 years ago

Create a small program, and iterate, iterate, iterate.

I took the entire pandemic off from programming, and when I had to go back to find a job, I needed to level up quickly to be able to pass programming interviews.

I wrote a program to start downloading stock quotes, then added writing to a database, then added code to graph it with flask, etc. If you choose something you're interested in and keep expanding the scope of the project, it's the best way to learn.

And functionally, Python 3 isn't a huge difference over Python 2, especially if you're starting from scratch again. For me the biggest change is adding parentheses around my print statements. Everything else is pretty similar.

zaptheimpaler · 2 years ago

Advent of Code [1] is coming up soon and its a great way to learn a language. The past years problems are still available and there are a lot of solutions all over reddit, github. This is a big plus because you can compare your code with them and find idiomatic ways to do things or libraries you might not have known about etc.

[1] https://adventofcode.com/

ipaddr · 2 years ago

"Please don't use AI to get on the global leaderboard"