I also live in Switzerland, and it is perfectly possible to survive 48 hours or so here without needing one, unless of course every single transaction you engage in requires 2FA, which.. here, you generally do not.
I mean, I feel for the guy moving to a new country - been there, done that - but, with respect he's hyperventilating just a little bit.
This is one of the various reasons why I dislike the encroaching mandatory 2FA.
Mind you, I have no plans of spending days without a smartphone, and maybe I'll never want to do that, but I don't like the way in which 2FA is making it outright impossible. It should be my own business whether I want a phone or not, and now it's becoming outright mandatory to interact with society (I can't even log into my workplace without 2FA). Another freedom that vanishes.
2FA doesn’t require a smart phone. It just requires a second form of authentication.
TOTP (the one time codes that are common methods of 2FA) don’t even need a smart phone. You can store them in most password managers, if you wanted to.
With regards to other forms of MFA, you can use email, SMS, hardware keys and I’ve seen some banks use a second password (which is dumb but probably no worse than email or SMS). Some sites just ask your for “memorable information”, which is also terrible in my opinion.
It just so happens that TOTP is the best second form of authentication because it is both secure but also cheap.
If you don’t want to store those TOTP codes on your smart phone then you can store them in your password manager or buy another physical device just for 2FA. I wouldn’t normally advocate storing your 2FA codes with your passwords, but that’s still better than not having any second factor of authentication at all.
You can, if you really care about this, get a dedicated hardware to store your TOTP tokens (for example [1]). There's also various open hardware projects (like [2]). Or you can just use an old smartphone without a SIM card, which probably doesn't "interact with society" any more than the website you're trying to log on to in the first place.
You could only have that if your bank account being emptied by someone knowing your password is your problem, not the bank's problem or employees forgoing 2FA carried the liability for their passwords leaking.
If the bank has to be partially responsible for your access credentials and your workplace is going to get in trouble from you reusing a password, of course they are not going to let you have much freedom here.
I have an old iPhone SE (2016) in the drawer at home, with a backup Google Authenticator and passwords backup by iCloud. It doesn't need a separate phone plan, or even any other network connection to function as a backup 2FA/password manager. Network (wifi) access is useful to keep the password data synced (which I scheduled for myself to check manually once a month).
1. paying the bills is something you do once every month for people not having setup direct payment. Sure most banks wants 2FA nowadays but you could live without a phone daily and only use one (or a tablet, a VM or an emulator) once a month (without SIM and plan). Or go to the actual bank once a month. People used to go to the post office once a month to pay the bills in Switzerland. I am pretty sure a lot of people still do it that way.
2. access to maps. Do what any tourist has done for decades. Go to the tourism office and grab a free map. If you wants more details, buy or print an actual detailed map + the public transport system map. done.
3. I have been a foreigner and have learnt languages just by living in a place. This is by interacting with the people that you start learning better and feel part of the community and culture. Asking for directions is part of it. Sure swiss people may not be on average the warmest people but you will always find people willing to help.
Your phone broke down, sorry, but you deal with it. You can even get a cheap android anywhere and a cheap prepaid plan if you can't afford a new iPhone
Yes I can understand, having to confirm transactions on a phone lacks a proper fallback plan most of the time
As with people that think their phone is a substitute for their car keys, especially when going countryside with 12% battery, you don't get a lot of sympathy from me
I gave up my smartphone and swtiched to a burner. Mostly an accident -- I bought the burner for travel, but then dropped my Pixel.
Biggest struggle was texting -- hard to do when you're pressing number keys -- and no Maps.
Everything else I could get around by bringing my laptop with me, or by moving / planning / scheduling better. Before I could just kinda go and figure it out on the way, get planted and read reddit on my phone, maybe see what was open near my in terms of coffee or food and roll with it. Couldn't do that with a burner.
2FA for personal stuff wasn't too bad, I had a tablet at home and that worked. Most 2FA stuff I didn't do anywhere except at home (disclaimer: also work remotely).
I could make it work, but after a while decided I didn't want to. Easier to scale down smartphone use or try to touch it less, than try to make the burner phone hacks work.
> So I had to live last weekend, without a smartphone
Gods, a WHOLE WEEKEND? Un-be-lie-va-ble.
> and made me realize that even though as much as I would love to live without a smartphone, unfortunately, we will never be able to escape from using a smartphone
Can't they just remove the company Zoom app from their phone and be happy all the time? Or are there places where you are expected to monitor that stuff 24/7?
This was really interesting. Smart phone is almost a friend.. The article reminded me of a great, classic American song.
Your best friend is you.
I'm my best friend too.
We share the same views and hardly ever argue.
Eat spam from the can,
Watch late night C-SPAN, and
Rock out to old school
Duran Duran.
This kind of article makes me want to reply in Reddit style, but I'll try really hard to refrain from doing so.
I guess this article is a good example of the mismatch between the intended audience and the actual audience, me.
I am totally unimpressed by someone who hasn't used a smartphone for some hours, but perhaps this is some new kind of sarcasm that I can't yet appreciate.
Somehow I expect public blogs and Twitter messages to be written for the most general audience, but this is obviously almost never the case.
In recent months I’ve noticed a few blogs talk about living with out a phone or, in some cases, internet for a weekend as if it’s some amazing accomplishment.
I love gadgets as much as the next guy and even I find it weird and depressing that some individuals are this dependant on their electronics that they need to write about their digital fasting in the same kind of way that one might talk about a solo expedition to the South Pole.
Even in 2023, I still don’t use my phone for navigating as a tourist. I just walk and explore. It’s far more enjoyable stumbling upon cool places than it is starring at a screen while you rush somewhere.
> I am totally unimpressed by someone who hasn't used a smartphone for some hours, but perhaps this is some new kind of sarcasm that I can't yet appreciate.
I don't think this is sarcasm (sadly) as there really are some people living constantly glued to their phone. Screen time off the roof, like hours and hours a day.
the zoomers have known no world without smartphones; it's their reality since they were kids.
hell, I had a flip phone in HS and while it wasn't good for much except making my parents feel like they had a line to me, it's been something I carry everywhere all the time for decades.
I quite often just forget my smartphone when I leave home. Last weekend I became the first time nervous about it because I thought i brought it and became nervous but only about that I might have lost it after I found is was not in my pocket.
Readit News
I mean, I feel for the guy moving to a new country - been there, done that - but, with respect he's hyperventilating just a little bit.
Mind you, I have no plans of spending days without a smartphone, and maybe I'll never want to do that, but I don't like the way in which 2FA is making it outright impossible. It should be my own business whether I want a phone or not, and now it's becoming outright mandatory to interact with society (I can't even log into my workplace without 2FA). Another freedom that vanishes.
TOTP (the one time codes that are common methods of 2FA) don’t even need a smart phone. You can store them in most password managers, if you wanted to.
With regards to other forms of MFA, you can use email, SMS, hardware keys and I’ve seen some banks use a second password (which is dumb but probably no worse than email or SMS). Some sites just ask your for “memorable information”, which is also terrible in my opinion.
It just so happens that TOTP is the best second form of authentication because it is both secure but also cheap.
If you don’t want to store those TOTP codes on your smart phone then you can store them in your password manager or buy another physical device just for 2FA. I wouldn’t normally advocate storing your 2FA codes with your passwords, but that’s still better than not having any second factor of authentication at all.
[1]: https://www.token2.com/shop/product/molto-2-v2-multi-profile...
[2]: https://hackaday.io/project/176959-open-authenticator
If the bank has to be partially responsible for your access credentials and your workplace is going to get in trouble from you reusing a password, of course they are not going to let you have much freedom here.
1. paying the bills is something you do once every month for people not having setup direct payment. Sure most banks wants 2FA nowadays but you could live without a phone daily and only use one (or a tablet, a VM or an emulator) once a month (without SIM and plan). Or go to the actual bank once a month. People used to go to the post office once a month to pay the bills in Switzerland. I am pretty sure a lot of people still do it that way.
2. access to maps. Do what any tourist has done for decades. Go to the tourism office and grab a free map. If you wants more details, buy or print an actual detailed map + the public transport system map. done.
3. I have been a foreigner and have learnt languages just by living in a place. This is by interacting with the people that you start learning better and feel part of the community and culture. Asking for directions is part of it. Sure swiss people may not be on average the warmest people but you will always find people willing to help.
Your phone broke down, sorry, but you deal with it. You can even get a cheap android anywhere and a cheap prepaid plan if you can't afford a new iPhone
Yes I can understand, having to confirm transactions on a phone lacks a proper fallback plan most of the time
As with people that think their phone is a substitute for their car keys, especially when going countryside with 12% battery, you don't get a lot of sympathy from me
Biggest struggle was texting -- hard to do when you're pressing number keys -- and no Maps.
Everything else I could get around by bringing my laptop with me, or by moving / planning / scheduling better. Before I could just kinda go and figure it out on the way, get planted and read reddit on my phone, maybe see what was open near my in terms of coffee or food and roll with it. Couldn't do that with a burner.
2FA for personal stuff wasn't too bad, I had a tablet at home and that worked. Most 2FA stuff I didn't do anywhere except at home (disclaimer: also work remotely).
I could make it work, but after a while decided I didn't want to. Easier to scale down smartphone use or try to touch it less, than try to make the burner phone hacks work.
Gods, a WHOLE WEEKEND? Un-be-lie-va-ble.
> and made me realize that even though as much as I would love to live without a smartphone, unfortunately, we will never be able to escape from using a smartphone
That was kinda clear from the get go.
Your best friend is you. I'm my best friend too. We share the same views and hardly ever argue. Eat spam from the can, Watch late night C-SPAN, and Rock out to old school Duran Duran.
I guess this article is a good example of the mismatch between the intended audience and the actual audience, me.
I am totally unimpressed by someone who hasn't used a smartphone for some hours, but perhaps this is some new kind of sarcasm that I can't yet appreciate.
Somehow I expect public blogs and Twitter messages to be written for the most general audience, but this is obviously almost never the case.
I love gadgets as much as the next guy and even I find it weird and depressing that some individuals are this dependant on their electronics that they need to write about their digital fasting in the same kind of way that one might talk about a solo expedition to the South Pole.
Even in 2023, I still don’t use my phone for navigating as a tourist. I just walk and explore. It’s far more enjoyable stumbling upon cool places than it is starring at a screen while you rush somewhere.
Dead Comment
I don't think this is sarcasm (sadly) as there really are some people living constantly glued to their phone. Screen time off the roof, like hours and hours a day.
hell, I had a flip phone in HS and while it wasn't good for much except making my parents feel like they had a line to me, it's been something I carry everywhere all the time for decades.
Deleted Comment