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Posted by u/asim 3 years ago
Ask HN: Are you tired of being fully remote?
Just curious to know how many people are tired of being fully remote? Would prefer not to hear the "I love being remote, it works with my lifestyle, etc" or "I hated the commute, I don't see why we were in the office five days, more productive at home" comments because mostly it's not the response I'm looking for. I'm interested to hear from the people who are tired of being remote and have gone back to the office or are planning to quit and get a job that's back in the office at least 3 days a week?

I think being remote worked for me for a while. I have a kid, I totally get the freedom and flexibility of it, but I also miss being around and working with human beings in person. Coffee shops and co-working spaces are no substitute for this. Interacting with people in other social settings is also not a replacement for this. I miss a team dynamic and one that's in person. I miss going somewhere that's out of my house for the purpose of doing a job that's fulfilling or at the very least in the service of something.

Not knocking the choice of being fully remote. It works for people and that's great, I still take advantage of that freedom, but there is something hugely lacking because I'm not going somewhere to work with people. And I think some of that will entirely change how and where I work next e.g do not want to work in a fully remote company, do not want to work across timezones, preferably want to be in a team of less than 10 people.

Who else is with me?

ryandrake · 3 years ago
> Would prefer not to hear the "I love being remote, it works with my lifestyle, etc" or "I hated the commute, I don't see why we were in the office five days, more productive at home" comments because mostly it's not the response I'm looking for.

Meta comment: Maybe it's not the best use of "Ask HN" if you only want to hear one answer. IMO this really isn't the place to go if you just want validation.

This Ask HN feels like "What's the best programming language? Please don't say anything except Rust."

navjack27 · 3 years ago
Python
antisthenes · 3 years ago
Correct!
danparsonson · 3 years ago
>Just curious to know how many people are tired of being fully remote? ... I'm interested to hear from the people who are tired of being remote...

Out of interest, what are you hoping to learn? Your feelings about remote working are valid regardless of whether 10 people agree with you, or 10,000. You do you!

cbsks · 3 years ago
Sometimes it’s nice to have your feelings validated, especially when it feels that you are in the minority.
carlosjobim · 3 years ago
What do you mean with "validated"? Nobody can tell you how to feel.
asim · 3 years ago
Well yes so all of this "return to office" stuff from tech companies always seems to result in backlash from engineers and the majority of discussion on HN skews to people who are outraged or are quite happy with the comfortable remote work life now. I want to talk to people who have lived and done that but see the value of actually interacting with real human beings in a work context. I think it's only fair to hear the other side and then see how people went about doing that. Because the transition back isn't so simple.
mm007emko · 3 years ago
Well, speaking of myself, I had always heard from managers that "people who work from home don't work", "it's more effective and efficient to be in the office", "you have to live the company culture" etc. But when we asked about a team-building event with colleagues from USA and India we were told "use modern technologies, it's equally effective". Something wasn't right, to say the least. Then COVID struck and the managers saw that the company didn't collapse. Au contraire, the efficiency of work teams were the same or even better. I also had to invest into modifications of my apartment to create a nice and efficient work environment, out of my pocket. So when my employer said "OK, COVID over, return to offices", I asked to remain full-time WFH. Denied. OK, found a new job. Luckily, there were other people who did the same so they now allow for full-time WFH.

These were my reasons. Since all that "be in office" was an utter load of shite and corpo toxicity (managers wanted to see you sitting at your desks or call for pointless meetings which could've been an e-mail), I am also extremely toxic about "return to office" unless it's guaranteed that the whole team is in the same office (which, in larger companies, doesn't happen).

If you, asim, want to work from the office and prefer real human contact (which, TBH, cannot be replaced by Teams, I agree with that - I spent my fair share of time away from my wife (luckily no kids at the time) and yes, a Skype call and couple of dungeon runs in World of Warcraft can't replace the experience of being at home :-D ) that's absolutely fine. I wish you find a workplace which suits you (that shouldn't be so hard these days). Do you really need a couple of weirdos on HN to assure you that you are correct? Guess what, speaking of the WFH, hybrid or "office" crowds, we all are! These are our preferences. Mine is different from yours. That's all. ;-)

zb1plus · 3 years ago
This kind of thinking is dangerous as it allows the management class to force all workers back into the office. Forcing workers into the office discriminates against employees with families, disabilities and non neurotypical folks who might be more effective WFH. Go to technical meetups, cultivate good conversations with your colleagues on Slack, generally make sure you have a life outside of work that give you meaningful social interactions (hobbies, sports, clubs, etc) but before you complain about remote work. Being forced to sit in a office with a bunch of people is very ineffective and prevents companies from hiring the best folks they can. Work is not meant to be a social venue, you can make friends with coworkers but you need to cultivate meaningful social relations beyond work. It is unhealthy and selfish to force other people back into the office just so you can have friends with you in the same location while you work. One thing to try if you really need social interactions while working might be to get together with other remote workers at the same coworking space once in a while. I would also suggest also looking into having random coffee syncups with your remote colleagues in order to build a meaningful rapport with them.
kzrdude · 3 years ago
It's helpful to everyone to consider and realize what kind of working situation they want, what they need to work well (socially, professionally, etc.). This is a huge factor in deciding where to work - how you want to do it. For some personalities, they really enjoy the in-person team dynamic. It's not dangerous to realize that about yourself.
ryandrake · 3 years ago
Yes, I think COVID times have shown us that it's not for everyone. I have colleagues who couldn't wait to get back into the office! Now that it can go either way, I would not want to force someone to work from home. So return the courtesy and don't force me to return to the office. Seems pretty simple.

Dead Comment

Spartan-S63 · 3 years ago
Not at all tired of being fully remote. I actually took a remote job pre-pandemic (by a ~month) after being in a strict, 9-6 (hour lunch break) day because the company had a legacy in the consulting business and treated their product teams the same.

The freedom and flexibility to structure my day as I see fit without anyone raising an eyebrow is something I'll continue to look for. There's no more performative productivity and I can focus on doing my best work and maximizing my impact for the organization while working a schedule that works for my lifestyle. It's the best of both worlds for me and my organization.

The things I do miss, though, are the in-person connections. These don't have to happen every day or even every week. Quarterly offsites are enough to get benefit. It's also likely cheaper for an org to get everyone together for a week-long than have standing real estate obligations (lease or otherwise).

Additionally, optimizing for regional concentrations and allowing folks to get together more frequently would help bridge this gap.

Biggest thing is that hybrid-remote is inflexible and doesn't allow the team to self-organize. The future is to decentralize in-person versus remote work to the lowest level team and let them figure out what works best.

imiric · 3 years ago
You invite people to answer, yet you only want answers that agree with you. Strange.

Anyway, I do disagree with you, but that's fine. Enjoying remote work or not is entirely a personal preference, and there's no single answer. Which is why it feels wrong for so many companies to have strict policies either way.

I personally enjoy remote work, and wouldn't want to go back to an office. I can be much more efficient working in a home office, have less distractions, and be happier overall. I do occasionally miss office banter, and bonding over lunch, but I definitely don't miss the drama and politics that goes along with it. Not having to commute, working in my own environment, and the additional flexibility are cherries on top.

For me, the office wasn't a social club. There are other venues much more suitable for that. I also don't think that you need to know someone personally in order to work well with them professionally. The team-building events many companies insist on having to improve "team spirit" and "work culture" are cringe beyond belief.

mm007emko · 3 years ago
I worked for a tech startup, well, quite a long time ago. All of us were in the same office. In case of some HR manager reads it: by "office" I mean "office". A room with doors, windows, a couple of desks each dedicated to one person. No open-plan, cubicles, "modern", "innovative" ... no shite like that. The whole team in the same office. In case of some HR manager reads it: by "whole team" I really mean "all developers and testers". It was also in a country with "strong lunch culture" (Czechia). Not as good as in let's say India but still - we all went to a pub mid-day for a lunch. I still miss those days.

When I moved to bigger companies, teams were larger, not necessarily in the same town. And we had colleagues spread across multiple timezones. And not only across EU (we have 3 but the vast majority of countries are in the same timezone as I am). We had colleagues in USA, Canada, EU, India. No difference whether I was in the office or at home.

You probably don't want to hear that but unless the whole team is in the same office I don't want to "return to office" because there is nothing for me in it. It's not worth the wasted time and fuel for commute.

hirundo · 3 years ago
I worked in various offices for decades, but have been remote for eleven years now. I still love it and don't want to go back.

Yes there are some circumstances where being in the flesh is better, particularly in intensive early design and architecture meetings. You can achieve a creative flow that's harder when apart. But that's always been a small part of my job, and the longer march of building the thing benefits from slow, separate thinking and prolonged focus that's harder for me when together with a team. I love to have the flexibility to respond to someone in minutes or hours instead of seconds.

But for me the lifestyle thing is bigger. I love my rural life, nowhere near an office building, let alone my other team members. In particular I'm a dog person, spend all day with my mutt, and couldn't bare to leave her alone all day. I'd rather not have dog than do that to it. What an awful prospect.

city41 · 3 years ago
You bring up a good point. I think the type of work is important here. On my current team our work is pretty dynamic and changes a lot, so I think that is one reason I feel we'd be better in person (we are fully remote).
voisin · 3 years ago
Pre-COVID employees were treated like children who had to ask for permission to not be in the office. The freedom of WFH during COVID was intoxicating for a while, but I think both ends of the spectrum are unhealthy and hybrid is the only way forward. There is no doubt in my mind that WFH adds friction to varying degrees depending on the organization and role, but there is always friction. The degree of friction should dictate the level of hybrid.

I suspect the range will be 2 to 3 days a week in the office and very few will be more or less.

I am exhausted by the people on the outer edges of the range arguing that their preference is the one true path and that nothing else is acceptable. Just because it (WFH or WFO) works for you doesn’t mean it works for your team, your division, your company, your customers, etc. Stop being selfish and accept a compromise in the middle that strikes the right balance of freedom.

trowawee · 3 years ago
Hybrid is the worst of both worlds. You still have to live close enough to the office to get there without an insane commute, so you don't get the "live where you want" benefits of fully remote, but you also have to have enough space in your house to work, so you lose the "home is home and work is work" benefits of working in an office. Plus, unless office and WFH days are rigorously coordinated (which destroys any "flexibility"), you're still going to spend a bunch of time in the office on zoom calls with people who are WFH. It's wild to me that this is being suggested as a compromise. Hybrid just guarantees a baseline level of misery for everyone.
voisin · 3 years ago
> You still have to live close enough to the office to get there without an insane commute, so you don't get the "live where you want" benefits of fully remote

I just absolutely marvel at this attitude, like it is such a massive put-out to have any form of inconvenience by the entity paying you. The entitlement in this industry is going to bite a lot of people in the ass.