To me, the weirdest part of Rick Rubin as a producer is that he has no distinctive sound. As best I can tell, there's no way to listen to an album and know he produced it.
I've watched a lot of interviews with Rick and about Rick, and his role seems to be entirely limited to being a muse for artists. He's not technical, he's not a musician, he doesn't really do anything beyond taking naps in the recording studio while the musicians record, occasionally opening his eyes to ask them how they feel.
To be honest, it would almost be possible to argue that Rick Rubin doesn't do anything worthwhile if he didn't have an outrageously long and unimpeachable resume to back up his contributions.
He's like a service animal for artists. He figures out what they need to feel comfortable and safe, to get into that flow state, and keeps them there while they record.
I really love him, he's an American treasure. I am so personally grateful for what he did for Johnny Cash.
It seems like he often takes on a passive role but has no problem being more active when necessary. The story of how he pursued Johnny Cash and introduced him to Nine Inch Nails’ Hurt is one example.
I’m reading Rubin’s book now and I really like it. It’s full of his observations and advice which includes not listening to advice. Very short chapters that are easy to read but I try not to read more than one or two a week because I find myself thinking about what I read for days.
Or the need to get hip hop understood by the masses through a familiar lens - ergo the Toys in the Attic hook into Walk this Way with Run DMC who he had to convince those washed up rock stars would help them sell more records.
Lack of reverb, especially in drums. He notoriously hated reverb.
One of the reasons it's hard to pin him down is because of the impact he had. It's like a fish in water or a nation jot recognizing it's distinct culture. This man, more than any other single man, impacted American popular culture to an unimaginable degree. If you grew up in the 90s or 00s, the music he produced dominated, set the tone, was the soundtrack to the American experience.
His records tend to be extremely "loud" too in a "pushed" or "squashed" sense of the word. Add that to the shortlist of his sonic signatures.
Not that loudness is a defining quality, but it's (in my opinion) a short-sighted trade-off for short term impact at the expense of long-term listenability that his records subscribe to.
This is super frustrating when you see the same in colleagues. Specifically, when upper management starts asking why we should keep person X around, as they were involved in a ton of accomplishments, but don't seem to be the driver for any of them.
I remember an interview where people that worked with him (I think Jay-Z?) described him as a "reducer" more than a "producer" which makes sense to me.
I've heard stories of artists with projects deep into scope creep calling Rick Rubin in to help cut through all the chaff.
It would make sense that he doesn't have a particular sound if his goal is to help the artist make the best possible art they can.
He stated as much in his recent Lex interview - paraphrasing "I get paid for my taste... and besides just saying what I like or pointing out what doesn't work, I'm aggressive at removing what isn't necessary to get the point across".
I don’t get the criticism that Rubin doesn’t have “a particular sound.” Music should have the musicians’ sound, not the producer’s. The producer should be invisible and bring out the best in the musicians, the way an editor in writing is.
His ideas are gold. It was his idea for Run DMC to cover Walk this Way, for Johnny Cash to cover NiN's "Hurt", for "99 Problems" to start acapella, and the bridge for "Chop Suey". He's not just passively enabling artists, he actively provides input as well.
> He's not technical, he's not a musician, he doesn't really do anything beyond taking naps in the recording studio while the musicians record, occasionally opening his eyes to ask them how they feel
He sounds like the Steve Jobs of music production! He seems to have the unquantifiable gift of having good taste, the faith and respect of the people who work with him.
Just as one example that he definitely doesn't do literally nothing, here's him giving a suggestion that created an iconic intro to a very well-known hip-hop song: https://youtu.be/FqNDYvsOZkc?t=203
That is a good point. My understanding is that there are different types of producers, and some lean more technical, while others lean more consultative, and Rubin is falls in the latter camp. Contrast that to other more technical producers like Phil Spector, or Dave Fridmann whos productions have a very distinctive sound.
My observation is that it seems like his skill is helping the artist see their work in a different way, helping them make creative decisions, and just generally offering counsel around how to make the best possible work. This process doesn't manifest in a specific sound, and each production is different based on the needs of the artist.
It’s all in the book promoted here. I guess he gives artists space and permission to be their best selves. Most of the time he seems to like removing things rather than adding. But most of all he talks about being the ”first listener” who is trying to figure out what is the essence of the piece and how to bring it out.
The book is so interesting that I actually paid full price at an airport.
Highly recommended. He even talks about things that never occurred to me, like how he tried to coach his artists into a flow by making sure they had everything from the start, like appropriate shoes!
Wish he’d been my mentor. Read it, if you are a creative, or a creative sympathizer!
I just came across Rick Rubin about a month ago. Had never heard of him before. He's one of those people who, upon hearing them speak, you just kinda get the sense that they're one of the coolest dudes on the planet.
Yes I've noticed that too. For one example, compare Tom Petty doing Full Moon Fever with Jeff Lynne, and then a few years later doing Wildflowers with Rick Rubin. Lynne has a sound, and it's all over FMF. Rubin doesn't have anything distinctive in the final product of WF, but you read or watch things about the recording and he's talking with Petty about it the entire time.
Not necessarily, if I'm listening to an album because of the artist then sure, the producer should be transparent and fade into the background. If I'm listening to an album because of the producer, I probably want to hear them add their distinctive touch. Danger Mouse, Madlib and Dan the Automator are examples of producers with very strong individual sounds and I'll make a point to listen to albums they've produced regardless of the artist or genre.
I guess listing hip-hop producers here is a bit unfair, since a large reason I listen to any given hip-hop track is because of the production, but Danger Mouse has produced rock albums that have a definitive Danger Mouse sound.
It depends. I like Steve Albini's style. Raw and live sounding but I'd still put Pixies Doolittle over Surfer Rosa, I do Nevermind for In Utero. Checkout Nina Nastasia whom Steve have worked multiple times.
It's kind of crazy. He's basically a filtered and focused amplifier for an artist as opposed to typical producer/collaborator. he's the ultimate 'PED' for artists!
This brings to mind his advice that is basically 'If you want 10 good songs, write 30'.
His method remind me of Nail Gaiman: "And I think it's really important for a writer to have a compost heap. Everything you read, things that you write, the things that you listen to, people you encounter-- they can all go on the compost heap. And they will rot down. And out of them grow beautiful stories."
Early rap records were mostly rappers, backed by house-bands playing disco music. Rick noticed that these early records didn't sound like what was being played in the streets (block parties and underground clubs). This bothered Rick, so he set out to produce a rap record that matched the sound he heard in the streets: "It's Yours" by T La Rock. This record is rarely mentioned as a hip hop classic, and it's generally overlooked as one of Rick's greatest hits. However, IMHO, the importance of "It's Yours" can't be overstated. Most significantly, it introduced the world to rap music from the streets, where it all began, with a DJ (and a beat), and a rapper on a microphone. That's it. No house-band. No made-for-radio, wanna-be disco sound. If not for "It's Yours", rap music might have died with disco. Hard to believe now, but it's 100% true.
Thanks for sharing, I’ve never heard the full song but I’ve definitely heard bits and pieces of it. Off the top of my head, I can name at three songs that sample it; Nas - The World is Yours (throughout), Beastie Boys - Paul Revere (also produced by Rick Rubin!) and Girl Talk - That’s Right.
It reminds me of the first time I heard Top Billin’ by Audio Two, I had heard samples of it many times but never the full song.
I'm kind of a hip hop trivia nerd, and this year is huge for guys like me: August 11th is generally regarded at the 50th anniversary of the birth of hip hop.
One last thing, another generally unrecognized, but highly influential producer in creating what would become the hip hop sound was the late Larry Smith. RIP
Accepting the conceit that the music industry is a meritocracy and that demand drives supply, Rick Rubin is clearly a 10Xer genius who gets the best of the best out of the best of the best while the tape is rolling.
Entertaining the conspiracy theory that the music industry is a cartel ran by a group of unscrupulous and insular gangsters with functionally-unlimited ability to promote and push garbage on the public, with marketing dollars and pay-for-play airtime being the primary means of popularity, one might assume that Rick was involved in projects whose success was a fait accompli, and that Rick's presence and observance in the studio goes beyond music.
Personally, I've noticed the wild variance in artists' opinions about working with Rubin: some say he's a genius and inspirational, but just as many say he's a useless loafer who checks-in from time to time without adding anything creative or useful. It seems, to me, that the former group come from "non-muscian" backgrounds: they are "artists" who usually contribute vocalisations which are a component of tracks created by producers; the latter group tends to include musicians and bands who are self-starters capable of producing songs on their own but expecting a pro producer to help the effort.
I noticed a few years ago that Rick's been involved in so many of my favorite albums it is nearly disturbing. I don't know what he's after but it's what I want to hear, apparently.
He did Slayer's first three records, Reign in Blood, South of Heaven and Seasons in The Abyss. All of them had distinctive drum sounds. Most of the early thrash metal records had pretty bad recordings, or the drums we hard to define. Not so with these records, the drums were very easy to hear in the mix with the rest of the heavy guitars.
The engineers invovled would certainly be responsible for this, Rubin himself has little-to-no technical ability or involvement with the actual process of creating music, instead he provides commentary, veto, and direction towards a high-level objective for the product being produced.
But, he almost-certainly was the guy who told Slayer "yeah... that... playing really fast and loud, all the time... keep doing that..." and we all owe him for that!
Oh I'm aware of all the Slayer records. The first show I saw them on was the Reign In Blood Tour back in 1987 at the Olympic Auditorium in Los Angeles. Went to their last show at the Forum here in Los Angeles back in 2019.
If you like to hear a counter perspective watch the Beastie Boys documentary on Netflix. It's not about Rick Rubin primarily of course but it paints a much more sober picture of the man.
I read the Beastie Boys book sometime last year and Rubin was everywhere with the Beastie Boys. Involved with record dealings with Rush Management and Def Jam, not only those but also on a personal level. Beastie boys and Rubin were really close.
Rubin was also instrumental in kicking out Kate of the Beastie Boys original drummer.
I'm not sure if I am able to, because it is very ambivalent. I think on one hand they looked up to him but on the other hand they found him alien. It would be easy to think that they admired him in the beginning but later were disgusted and felt screwed over, but my interpretation of the documentary is that they don't feel like that. It's more like they always had and maybe still have mixed feelings.
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I've watched a lot of interviews with Rick and about Rick, and his role seems to be entirely limited to being a muse for artists. He's not technical, he's not a musician, he doesn't really do anything beyond taking naps in the recording studio while the musicians record, occasionally opening his eyes to ask them how they feel.
To be honest, it would almost be possible to argue that Rick Rubin doesn't do anything worthwhile if he didn't have an outrageously long and unimpeachable resume to back up his contributions.
I really love him, he's an American treasure. I am so personally grateful for what he did for Johnny Cash.
I’m reading Rubin’s book now and I really like it. It’s full of his observations and advice which includes not listening to advice. Very short chapters that are easy to read but I try not to read more than one or two a week because I find myself thinking about what I read for days.
https://www.loudersound.com/features/walk-this-way-run-dmc-a...
One of the reasons it's hard to pin him down is because of the impact he had. It's like a fish in water or a nation jot recognizing it's distinct culture. This man, more than any other single man, impacted American popular culture to an unimaginable degree. If you grew up in the 90s or 00s, the music he produced dominated, set the tone, was the soundtrack to the American experience.
Not that loudness is a defining quality, but it's (in my opinion) a short-sighted trade-off for short term impact at the expense of long-term listenability that his records subscribe to.
I've heard stories of artists with projects deep into scope creep calling Rick Rubin in to help cut through all the chaff.
It would make sense that he doesn't have a particular sound if his goal is to help the artist make the best possible art they can.
He sounds like the Steve Jobs of music production! He seems to have the unquantifiable gift of having good taste, the faith and respect of the people who work with him.
My observation is that it seems like his skill is helping the artist see their work in a different way, helping them make creative decisions, and just generally offering counsel around how to make the best possible work. This process doesn't manifest in a specific sound, and each production is different based on the needs of the artist.
He famously took six months to produce Pet Shop Boy's "Left to my own devices".
Highly recommended. He even talks about things that never occurred to me, like how he tried to coach his artists into a flow by making sure they had everything from the start, like appropriate shoes!
Wish he’d been my mentor. Read it, if you are a creative, or a creative sympathizer!
https://www.loudersound.com/features/walk-this-way-run-dmc-a...
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https://twitter.com/jetsetter/status/1574188554787655680?s=2...
I guess listing hip-hop producers here is a bit unfair, since a large reason I listen to any given hip-hop track is because of the production, but Danger Mouse has produced rock albums that have a definitive Danger Mouse sound.
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His method remind me of Nail Gaiman: "And I think it's really important for a writer to have a compost heap. Everything you read, things that you write, the things that you listen to, people you encounter-- they can all go on the compost heap. And they will rot down. And out of them grow beautiful stories."
(And of course the pottery teacher story.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfndwTrDXbo
It reminds me of the first time I heard Top Billin’ by Audio Two, I had heard samples of it many times but never the full song.
https://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/investigation/birt...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Smith_(producer)
https://www.loudersound.com/features/walk-this-way-run-dmc-a...
Entertaining the conspiracy theory that the music industry is a cartel ran by a group of unscrupulous and insular gangsters with functionally-unlimited ability to promote and push garbage on the public, with marketing dollars and pay-for-play airtime being the primary means of popularity, one might assume that Rick was involved in projects whose success was a fait accompli, and that Rick's presence and observance in the studio goes beyond music.
Personally, I've noticed the wild variance in artists' opinions about working with Rubin: some say he's a genius and inspirational, but just as many say he's a useless loafer who checks-in from time to time without adding anything creative or useful. It seems, to me, that the former group come from "non-muscian" backgrounds: they are "artists" who usually contribute vocalisations which are a component of tracks created by producers; the latter group tends to include musicians and bands who are self-starters capable of producing songs on their own but expecting a pro producer to help the effort.
However, the production difference between the pre-Rubin albums and the Rubin albums is stark, and the value of Rubin's help is really noticeable.
Rubin was also instrumental in kicking out Kate of the Beastie Boys original drummer.
Just my take away.