Those at a high-growth startup or other such scenario, I understand there's intrinsic motivation/expectation to make as much progress as possible. But that's a particular type of role. As well as contractors with multiple gigs, and anyone side-hustling, I imagine odd working hours are common.
Those making a reasonable salary as a full-time developer, do you regularly work nights/weekends for that employer? Do you do it because you enjoy the work? Do you do it because you feel obligated? I'm just trying to get a sense of what people do, in various types of roles. Maybe you work nights/weekends, but take time during weekdays for yourself. Maybe you work as little as possible to get the job done. Just trying to start a conversation around what people's working schedules are like.
I don't work nights and weekends. I would have no problem with the occasional extra labor in special circumstances, but if it was a regular thing I would just find another job.
If I worked all weekend, would the CEO be grateful? Would he come over and mow my lawn while I was working? What if I volunteered my labor around his house for the weekend? Would he be grateful enough to properly staff the engineering department of his company?
Working nights and weekends deprives your peers of the opportunity for a job. Every hour you work is one less hour ownership has to pay for. You are suppressing your wage and the wages of your peers.
What does ‘necessary’ mean? I report directly to the big boss and he always insists I don’t have to work outside of regular hours.
But there are times when other team mates are depending on me for something and through external forces (customers, opportunities) they have an expedited timeline, I’ll choose on my own to kick some ass for a few days and help them meet their goals. I am abundantly compensated for my efforts by the company. And the big boss has always recognized my contributions and sweetened the deal for me.
There are also times in normal mode where we have planned things and I underestimated time requirements I will kick in to maintain my reputation. Other times team mates can wait longer and they recognize our dynamic environment and they’re chill about me being “late” on something.
It can get tough without one or the other!
I used to spend 80 hours a week at past startups because that was required and I wanted to move out of help desk support. There were various moments during my stint at Peloton where that number jumped to 120 hours a week.
I'm now at Federal and spend good 30-35 hours/week at work. I'll work nights but only if I took the day off in the morning without taking my PTO. I am able to enjoy life outside of work and I am a better person for it. There's nothing inherently wrong about working extra hours or nights, but do it for yourself or someone you care about at work, never for the organization.
As I’ve gotten older and have better uses for my time I find myself working a ~40hr week and checking out. Occasionally if I have a challenging problem that requires deep focus I’ll log on at night, but only because I like the satisfaction of “the grind” every now and then.
I may be an outlier, as I'm a bachelor (not much family/relationship time allocated), but I've found myself diving hard into work again as I come into my 40s, after really taking it easy in my 30s.
But in the evening once they’re all settled, I do frequently work. I don’t enjoy TV and social media is cancer. I’ll play the occasional video game with mates.
It's crazy to see all these workers who value my time and my business more than they value themselves. Some guy said he worked 120 hours/week at Peloton, lmao. I'm calling bullshit on that one, but the premise remains - there are a non-trivial number of people willing to invest a lot more time and effort than what they're paid for, and for what? A socialwidget? A newtechgrift? The modern economy is bullshit jobs galore. You guys aren't even the cogs in the machine - you're the grease. You want to spend your would-be leisure time lubing up the machine?
But the 8 - 5 period during the 5-day workweek is so precious for communication with office people of all kinds, from clients to suppliers, within my time zone. Most of the 24/7 week occurs outside these 5 narrow windows, or 10 even narrower ones if you count lunch. Plus lots of times Mondays and Fridays can be easily lost to a good extent.
A lot of businesses need "normal" business hours to be focused on the business itself. Sometimes more so than focusing on engineering during that time even if it's an engineering company. That's the "normal job" 5-day week part that's always habitual for me. The easy part has to be showing up consistently enough that you take off less often than everyone you interact with.
So I prefer to have most physical work, infrastructure building, instrument commissioning & calibration, things like that done "after hours" whenever possible.
With enough of that behind me, I can make the most of it 8 - 5 for a while until the next growth effort, which will have as much of its activity occur after hours also, leaving the 8 - 5 period intact to maintain continuity. As if no new projects are being undertaken until proven viable. It's worth the extra hours.
Long ago I became comfortable with the concept that you can operate a lab like this 5 days a week, but it really needs to be built or grown nights, holidays, and weekends. In our case it's a bonus to be able to also operate when most businesses are closed as well.
This is not some well-funded research outfit, I have to make a profit here.
I think a lot of people want to work-to-live rather than live-to-work. I don't take anything for granted, I am always hustling and trying to provide more for my family and a better life than I had growing up. I see free enterprise as satisfying the wants of people voluntarily, which is the most noble way you can help people IMO. So I work long hours with the personal opinion that I am helping society the best way I possibly can.
I find it interesting how people navigate these tradeoffs. I'm 38, married with two kids (one 3, the other 6mos). It's BUSY. Especially because my wife has a good career, which for better or worse, is a big part of her identity and something she'll never not do (building architecture). Given that we'll always have her salary, I manage a couple rental properties part time, plus have taken a few swings at getting bootstrapped products out the door with mixed success.
I honestly don't know whether you or I have it "easier". I have friends with stay-at-home spouses. I envy their ability to just go to work and focus. I spent today (Sunday) fixing our dryer, going to the grocery store, and doing other chores a stay-at-home wife might handle during the week. I work almost every weekend doing either housework, tax prep, or other stuff. On the other hand, I know we'll never not eat, so the financial stress is a lot less than a one-income household trying something entrepreneurial. Unless you're either really rich or have saved a lot (and willing to risk it), it's hard seeing how someone in that position, especially with kids in a high COL area, can make it work without taking a big salary out of the company (and getting financing to do it). It seems borderline impossible.
I think raising two kids is at least one "full time job", probably more because it's not just 9-5 Monday-Friday. If you're in a two-working spouse family with kids, I think it's very difficult to work more than 45-50 hours/week, and that's assuming you have daycare. There's just SO MUCH to do. Laundry, groceries, dishes, and meal prep are easily 15-20h/week for a family of four. Add to that taking kids to/from childcare/school, putting them to bed, bathing them, keeping them entertained on the weekends, doctors' appointments, and the rest, it gets tough to work more than 50h/week with a working spouse. I think 70 is basically not doable unless you're OK going days at a time not seeing your kids, and even then, only one spouse/partner can really do it.
All that stuff you mention is mostly my wife during the day. My kids go to school / daycare so she has time to maintain the house and shop.
I work from home and co-founded a fairly large and successful software business that is remote only. This is the only way I can work this much and see family properly.
I’ve had enough exits and frugal savings over the past 20 years to buy multiple rental properties, and I make a good salary.
My wife is very appreciative of what I do and knows all we have is because of my career. She is extremely helpful and accommodating, and we are a team - she manages the kids and house while I make us financially secure.
The best way to summarize my philosophy is long term thinking. I always try to make decisions and investments that help long term, even if there is pain in the short term. You wait long enough and the seeds planted 5, 10, 20 years ago bear fruit. And if you plant those every year, after a while it’s just ripe fruit all the time.
I have no moral issue leaving a giant inheritance to my children - the family unit is the most important thing and I see my work as the beginning of a multi-generational project. I want them to have every advantage in life, but also the philosophical tools to properly manage and grow their wealth, build new businesses, nurture their spiritual and intellectual souls.
There is so much more I could say but I’ve rambled on enough. Like you said we are probably of similar mind in many ways.
One final note is that my family is quite religious which is not typical for big city tech types. However it is a key reason why we are happy IMO.