I try to be gracious and happy for their good fortune.
However it makes me depressed and angry and envious.
One friend told me a few days ago his house went up in value $1,000,000 in one year, at which point he sold it.
I visited my cousin who is a fabulous person and has a gorgeous house freshly renovated and extended and a new pool put it.
All around me my peers are becoming very wealthy.
And I’m at the bottom with nothing.
I try to be happy for them and gracious and to listen and enthuse whilst they tell me of their good fortune or show me around their stunning houses. And afterwards I feel smashed with depression as I go back to my shit rental house that I’m ashamed of.
Good people, great friends, and seeing them brings me down.
Rich people aren’t aware that their tales of success make people like me feel bad. They shouldn’t have to be aware of that or hold themselves back. As a good friend I should feel happy for them, and I pretend to, but inside it makes me feel terrible.
If you’re commenting on this thread and offering advice, I encourage you add the context of whether you are one of those who have money or not.
Everyone was jealous of the next level up. I was making 300k and my high school hometown friends were like "holy cow, you're so lucky this is amazing, you have your own apartment" meanwhile I was annoyed I couldn't keep up financially with my trust fund boyfriend who had $3 million a year to piss away with random trips to Bermuda. My CFO was jealous of the Principal who could take netjets and didn't have to fly first class everywhere. The NetJets guy was jealous of the billionaire principal who had his own jet. That billionaire was jealous of the main money dude who had family money inherited from the crusades. They all fought with their wives over private school tuition and horses. Everyone drank, did tons of drugs, had dramatic affairs and fought like cats and dogs with their families.
I left finance and went into healthcare and realized I'm pretty damn happy living a simple life. I kept a $1500 belt I bought from Henry Bendels that's incredibly ugly as a reminder of dumb decisions and having too much money to piss away on stupid crap!
Read Blood Diamonds: Tracing the Deadly Path of the World's Most Precious Stones Book by Greg Campbell. Reading that made me realize how our planet has finite resources and I just I wanted to cleave the my own consumption habits so stopped needless shopping for "fun" and started being a stubborn bastard about driving my 12 year old Hyundai into the ground. It's not much but it's my own private rebellion against the gaping maw of endless consumerism.
Worship your family, friends, love ones, health, music, doing things that make you feel alive, shared experiences and nature over shiny toys and stuff that just sits around collecting dust and looking pretty.
At the end of the day, we're all the same food for worms anyways no matter our net worth. Enjoy your friendships, realize they probably have their own internal struggles and problems they're dealing with and try to be there for them in whatever way you can!
Illuminati confirmed.
On a serious note, being born into wealth is a travesty of sorts. People who are tend to experience a reality that is far removed from that of the average person, and as such can't identify nor relate. They are robbed of a certain type of life. Yet, enormous wealth confers power that can be exercised over common people—despite such an upbringing rendering one ill-suited to exercise said power. It's a timeless problem, I suppose.
However, theres no political will, because those with money, can lobby better than those without.
Ironically America rejected the monarchy, and yet has replaced it with an oligarchy.
Agree but let’s not forget that money can give you wonderful experiences even if you are not materialistic, including the ability to not work anymore. Those are the people I am jealous of.
I have two takes on this.
The first is: I've met people who don't work. They're some of the most boring and wasteful people I've ever met.
Lying down on a beach, or watching tv 12 hours a day (random cliches), get boring after some time.
So one's going to look for something more meaningful and committed (in best case...), which brings to the second point: anything that's going to take a consistent share of one's like, inevitably becomes "work".
Morale of the story: there is no freedom from work. But there's the option to pursue the work one likes :)
I'm sure your new lifestyle is suitable for you and makes you happy. But I don't believe that's generalizable.
[1]: https://archive.ph/20210127035328/https://www.vice.com/en/ar...
Precisely this. Perhaps these friends continue to spend time with OP because they bring something enriching to their lives? I have some money and I don't look down on my friends who have less, but I also don't value it beyond being a tool. To me, money is a necessary evil and I'd rather do without. I value the richness of spirit in my friends.
Meanwhile, there's something condescending about talking to someone who is looking at being unable to accumulate enough wealth to do the things they want about how those things are meaningless.
"Spend time with your friends", she says.
OK, and then not be able to go out for drinks with your friends because you can't afford to eat out? Or because you're working a 12 hour shift because you need the overtime? Or studying trying to get marketable job skills?
This discussion is full of rich, self-righteous assholes lecturing about how being wealthy isn't that great for this or that reason...
Rich people don't have to worry about losing their job because their shitty 10 year old car is breaking down. They even can afford to buy cars that actually appreciate in value.
Rich people can afford accountants to help them dodge the hell out of taxes, while poor people make mistakes on their tax forms and get slammed with extra taxes and fees.
If someone rich loses their job, they likely have multiple kinds of savings, at least an emergency fund. What a novel concept- money you have just in case there's an emergency. They have plenty of people to network with and can find another job easily.
Rich people don't have to worry about getting bent over if they need a loan.
Rich people can buy durable housing, clothing, etc instead of shit that falls apart constantly.
Rich people can afford healthy food, and have the time and energy to cook for themselves or at least get nutritious take-out, etc.
I have slowly made a bunch of friends via an activity I'm able to do because of a family member. I was invited to an activity. That activity is going to cost $100+, not including the gas to get to/from the event. That is a sixth of my monthly budget. The guy organizing the event owns a "summer car" that costs $150,000.
There's a lot of burnt out healthcare workers for sure, it's a hard job but I would say it's always interesting, you're always learning, there's lots of diversity and ways to specialize your career path (I went into oncology research) and it truly is rewarding. Just keep your head up for flying projectiles at your face :P
Hope you're feeling better!
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> I left finance and went into healthcare and realized I'm pretty damn happy living a simple life
If you made 300k per year before, how is that compatible with "living a simple life"? At that rate, with just a few years of working you can have saved up 1M in your bank account, which imho is nothing like 'living a simple life', even if you dont spend it.
I wonder how you maintain wealth across centuries.
I married into a wealthy family and I was not prepared for this. Its not easy keeping your head down.
If I could 'buy'(how ironic lol) your experience noted here I would, it seems like hard-engrained 'learned' knowledge that is hard to get through just reading.
https://www.sefaria.org.il/Pirkei_Avot.4.1?lang=bi
"who is rich? one who is happy with their lot"
It may sound like pat advice, but -- maybe you need to start looking for new friends.
The kind who wouldn't think twice coming over to your "shit rental" (which would probably be considered quite rich, not to mention safe and clean in much of the world). Just to hang out with you, watch a movie maybe, and share whatever kind of meal you're able to whip up on your gas stove.
Life is to short to be spent in situations of any kind where you feel uncomfortable in your skin. Even if it's not directly the fault of the people you currently hang out with.
But a good rule of thumb is: if you don't feel comfortable inviting these people to your home - or even telling them where (and in what circumstances) you live -- it's probably best to start moving on.
(And perhaps to other countries where the income distribution is far less skewed, and people are far less hung up on relative wealth and status as they are in the U.S. -- at least for a few years or so, to get over the current anxiety you're facing, and start to feel human again. But that's a side topic).
I think it's more complicated than that. I'm lucky enough at this point in my life to have enough money to afford a nice house and nice toys, and not worry much about money. I also have absolutely zero issue going to hang out with friends who have much less than me. I really don't care at all. Some of my happiest years were when I was younger and poor. I had just barely enough money to make ends meet most of the time, was living in a back room of a dirty little house with three other roommates, and I was living happy because I liked who I was with. I get that money and real worth are two very different things and enjoy people for who they are, not where they're at.
But sometimes I can clearly feel the awkwardness coming at me when I hang out with people who are significantly less well off than I am and they know it. I'm usually not sure how to handle it, and typically end up just not hanging out with them much. I sometimes also find similar situations hanging out with people who have a lot more than I do. With some people it works fine, with others I can tell by what they say and how they act that they're uncomfortable because of the difference.
FWIW, the initial boost of happiness derived from living in nice accomodations is shortlived, after a few weeks or a month you'll likely feel about the same as before you got the nicer digs.
Once I experienced and internalized this lesson, I was able to stop caring much about my house (just keep it clean and as comfy as possible) and instead focus on the amazing people in my life who genuinely care about connecting with me regardless of fancy house circumstance. In this way it's actually a highly effective filter facilitating minimization of superficial relationships.
That hasn't been my experience. When I found my current place I was ecstatic over it and ~3 years later, I still am just as much. I have no plans of moving out unless I move cities -- it hits the spot that much for me compared to all the previous places I've lived previously.
Is there any indication that these people don't want to come over to OPs "shit rental"?
This is good advice. However, I also think that you (the OP) also need to change your mindset.
For context on myself: I have lived most of my life in your situations like yours, until recently when I became wealthy enough to retire early.
As a kid, my family ate government assistance food. There were times when I had to look in the couch cushions for money to buy food.
For all of my life, I've known people who are very visibly wealthy. However, I was fortunate enough to learn early to hold wealth in mild disgust and also not make a big deal about it. I encourage you to develop this sort of attitude.
As randycupertino mentions above. Not only is the hedonistic treadmill is real, it's actually sort of pathetic. Many people who are rich become sort of helpless. Unable to do simple things like changing a car tire by themselves. Learn to be self sufficient and take pride in it.
The other thing to realized is that past a point money won't buy you happiness. And you are in control of where that point is.
Now, to add to what vanusa says above. You need new friends. I say this because one of my good friends is very wealthy, but I never once felt bad or envious about it. My friend's parents came from very humble backgrounds and they did a wonderful job at staying grounded and kind. This family didn't brag about money, they wouldn't enthuse whilst telling me of their good fortune.
Furthermore, I think it's very tacky and shallow to talk about wealth.
Personally, when I became wealthy, my spouse and I agreed to not tell anybody about our wealth. The only people who know the true value of our wealth are me, my spouse, our accountant, the IRS, and God.
Certainly, some people have their guesses, but there is no way for people to know the precise details. We still live in the same modest house, drive the same 10 year old car, wear the same clothes, etc.
A big reason why we haven't changed our lifestyle is because our friends and family are very important to us and we don't want what was honestly a lucky break to get in the way of those things.
To summarize:
- I've been in your shoes in the past
- You need better friends
- You also need to work on yourself and your mindset
The OP is not wealthy enough to develop that attitude. I think that is what wealthy people forget, money does indeed solve many problems.
Being poor introduces a number of problems, and if you are not actively there, you quickly forget what it is like. That's okay.
I believe that an economic class system exists for a reason. It is easy to interact with people one above or one below your class. Beyond that it becomes more difficult, and requires more energy. It is up to individuals to decide how they want to spend that energy. And the less money someone has, the more energy it takes to do things, and vice versa.
Like you, I had a really good and genuine relationship with those people, some were also looking up to me for career inspiration and advice (I am a senior technical leader with patents, great professional achievements, …). One IPO that put them in the $20m, out of complete luck (they were hired as simple individual contributors on “plain” projects) changed everything.
One time, after the IPO and a few quarters of the stock rising, I was told by one of them: “why do you work so hard rather than choosing a good pre IPO company and stay at the bottom and chill and retire in a couple years?”
No shit. That was the last straw. I cut all those people off my life because it was too painful to witness their change in lifestyle and attitude, and how they kept subtly rubbing it in my face at every social event, implying that their course of events was all part of a smart master plan, rather than 99% dumb luck.
I am sad for losing those connections and I have wonderful memories of the time together (vacations, “bro” trips, …), but overall I am happy about this choice, to me it’s as if the people they once were effectively died as the IPO happened.
I have done financially very well but it’s not comparable to their level, and the effort and sacrifices required from my side was easily 10X theirs. I know this should be obvious in adulthood, but life is not fair at all. I am also aware of how privileged my position is (for now), compared to the people dying of cancer in their 30s, so I don’t let it affect me too much.
There are two parts. One one's feelings --which one can control or perhaps at least control whether one is subject to the source of frustration. Jealousy can definitely be an issue if one finds oneself to be inadequate compared to where one could imagine oneself.
The other is the second party's attitude. And, to some extent, the second party should also more or less be themselves --that is, don't apologize for where you find yourself but also don't be completely oblivious and offend by not being aware of the situation. Have decent manners.
So, if the above are intractable, I would likely find another set of friends one is more comfortable being around. People can outgrow each other. It happens frequently.
Anyways after seeing how things shake up in my own life, I like to joke that I would rather be lucky than anything else.
Unless you're the richest person on Earth, there will always be someone with more money than you. Likewise, unless you're the poorest person on Earth, there will always be someone with less money than you.
So, if you find yourself between these two extremes, a change in viewpoint is the only thing that can get you out of this funk. I have several friends (no joke) who have become billionaires over the last few years. I've slipped into periods of jealousy, but it's taken some mulling to realize that I only want what I think they have. And what is that, exactly? More "stuff"? A bigger house? How are things going to really make me feel happy? Fact is, they won't, and they can't.
I can feed myself and my family. I am healthy (now, at least--for many years, I was not). I have shelter. I have friends who I care about and who care about me. If you have these things, you have wealth--or at least enough of it to be happy.
It also seems unnecessarily burdensome and superficial; when said people who you cut out face financial strain of their own, are they then “allowed” to be your friends again? Likewise, if you win the lottery, how would you react if all of your old friends stopped talking to you?
Instead, try to approach these feelings with an attitude of compassionate curiosity.
First, notice that there’s nothing wrong about having these feelings. It’d be wrong if you were mean to your friends because of their success. But you can have these feelings and not be mean to them. The feelings are not the problem.
Second, understand that there’s nothing wrong with you. You’re having these feelings for a reason. There's a casual chain of events that's making you feel this way. So, why are they happening?
The obvious -and wrong- answer is because your friends have money and you don’t. But surely there are plenty of people in the world that have less money than you, and still manage to be reasonably happy. And even your rich friends could compare themselves with even richer people and feel inadequate about how small their swimming pool or their yacht is. Are they feeling this way?
You can ask other more meaningful questions: why do you feel the need to compare yourself with your friends? Why do you feel that you need a ton of money to validate you and make you happy?
These are not easy questions to answer. They often touch deep wounds -otherwise we wouldn’t be so keen to avoid them. But approaching them with curiosity and compassion is the only way to find the root causes of what’s making you so miserable.
One tool they advise using is negative visualization. Take a minute right now and imagine how things could be worse. Your apartment could have a leak in the roof. You could have to share it with a roommate who steals from you. You could be living on the street.
This is not to say you have no problems. Not at all! But sitting with thoughts about how your life could be worse might help you be happier with your situation. You say you're "at the bottom with nothing". It's easy to think about your life only looking up and seeing how far you have to go; harder to look down and see how far you have come.
Additionally, imagine what the "stunning house" costs them! Not money, specifically, because they have it. But how much must they worry about being broken into. They have to deal with fixing everything that could go wrong, while you can call your landlord and have them fix it -- or even move out!
Be careful not to become too attached to things you can't control. If their expensive house burns down tomorrow, would they be too used to it to rent a smaller place? That's attachment that would make it harder to live.
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I contrast this with how I grew up: with my brother, raised by a single mom who worked 2 or 3 jobs at a time, starved herself occasionally, and sometimes did illegal things (theft) to make ends meet. Among other...less savory experiences I had. My mom isn't around to see my good fortune. I would have loved dearly to buy her a house and take care of her so she could find peace in life she only found in death. Point is, I know what it's like to not be fabulously well off.
It isn't hard to keep my exuberance in check.
What I'm saying is: maybe being gracious has its limits. Perhaps your friends could use a dose of reality of what it's like to not be fabulously wealthy. I wish I had some idea of how that might be accomplished. Or perhaps you should find new friends. If your current friends might be offended by a reminder that their wealth and how they present their fortune has an emotional impact on those without it, then personally I don't know that I'd call them "good".
Jealousy, like every other emotion is part of being a human and the sooner you come into terms with that, the better it will be.
I think you are holding yourself to an unattainable moral standard. If spending time with your friends is unsettling for you, then it's time to move on. They may or may not be intentionally showing off their wealth but frankly that's irrelevant because the only thing that matters is your well being.
Further, I urge you to think about the word Relationship: it's RELATE+SHIP which is the process of continuously _relating_ to someone, so if you can no longer do that with your friends, your relationship is meaningless.
As for the question of wealth and happiness in general, my own view on this is that is varies from person to person. I personally like to have _some_ savings, own a property and be able to take a vacation once a year.
I opt in for optimizing my quality of life rather than wealth and this means finding avenues to work _less_ and focus on things that truly matter to me: spending time with my significant other and family members, exercising and sleeping well and eating good food.
I'm not going to respond to a last minute email or be "on call" and miss the opportunity of having sex with my fiance.
I sure as hell don't want to be the person who missed all those joyful moments because I was too busy chasing millions and building the next Facebook. What am I going to do with millions on my death bed?
Life is all about balance.
Because HN is full of rich know-it-alls, and those people have zero idea what it is like to live anywhere near the federal poverty line.
I've been living for years off less than $12k a year. Nobody in this thread has any idea what that is like save maybe OP.