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partycoder · 9 years ago
Being a full stack developer means being proficient on the frontend as well as backend. Unfortunately none of those tutorials prepare you to work at the backend of a production service.

To say you can do backend code because you can write in JavaScript is like saying you can write a paper on cardiology because you know English. Knowing the language is a small part of the job. There is a lot of domain knowledge that is required in addition to the language.

Learn networking, learn operating systems, learn distributed systems, learn performance and scalability, learn about databases. Then learn node.

partycoder · 9 years ago
And as a small example:

Let's take a look at the "best practices" tutorial from nodeschool.io, one of the recommended tutorials.

https://github.com/excellalabs/js-best-practices-workshopper...

Can you list all the mistakes in this code?

- Using IEEE 754 floating point numbers (built-in Number type in JavaScript) for storing a balance is unsafe. Read more here: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3730019/why-not-use-doubl...

- Your bank would never represent a balance in that way. They store transactions individually and they fold them to compute your balance.

- The input validation is extremely weak. Pass in: undefined, NaN, Infinity or some funny value and you will end up with a corrupted balance, or force "decreaseBalance" to increase, and "increaseBalance" to decrease.. The isValidAmount method should use "isFinite" rather than strong comparison with null.

And let's better stop here...

Schaulustiger · 9 years ago
To be honest, I don't think that NodeSchool intends to give a primer on how to build a production-ready balance manager. They want to teach the basics of JS, that's all.

I agree, though, that those learning services give the impression that it's just about learning how to code and maybe use some design patterns. You won't find a security/authentication course on FreeCodeCamp or one about codebase maintainability, which is a shame.

JDLongley · 9 years ago
This is great to show how smart you are, but what will a beginner who wants to use this resource think when they read your comment? People have to start somewhere.
majormajor · 9 years ago
Before really going deep into networking, OSes, distributed systems, perf and scalability, I'd say "learn monitoring, alerting, and dashboards, and then learn whatever your data indicates as issues."

Do that right and you'll have a much directed path towards what to learn next.

partycoder · 9 years ago
Logging, monitoring, etc... is of no value if you do not have an intuition of what to monitor.

Monitoring is mostly reactive, to stay afloat you should focus on prevention: know your code, keep it clean, test it, do load testing... and monitor it.

mkalygin · 9 years ago
I agree. I'm mostly experienced in front-end and I like to work on back-end as well, but I can say that I feel a lack of practice on back-end side since I don't know everything you have mentioned.

What do you think is the best way to learn production best practices for back-end?

partycoder · 9 years ago
First is to learn the difference between functional requirements and non-functional requirements. Usually functional requirements are explicit, and non-functional requirements are implicit. e.g: nobody asks for a service that doesn't crash, degrade or gets hacked. Those are implicit requirements.

Each one of those requirements comes with their own set of good practices. e.g: security good practices, maintainability good practices, configuration good practices, documentation good practices, etc...

Then, you don't protect a $10 bike with a $100 lock. There are tradeoffs that need to be taken into account.

mawburn · 9 years ago
At the same time, it's hard for people to learn about those things in any real way without some understanding of how to put it into practice.
nimchimpsky · 9 years ago
> Then learn node.

or don't bother, because its javascript.

tannhaeuser · 9 years ago
Is this supposed to be a reference to churn in Javascript-land? I think "JS fatigue" is a meme of yesteryear (and frankly, something I hear only from those without any experience with it at all, or with an investment in alternate platforms). Node.js with its rich tooling and integrations is the platform to beat for Web apps (but not necessarily content-driven sites) still in 2017.

You don't have to use babel, webpack, and co.; there are (and always have been) simple make-based workflows eg. https://github.com/tj/mmake for asset management.

partycoder · 9 years ago
Just out of curiosity, what do you suggest instead?

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debaserab2 · 9 years ago
This barely touched on what you need to become a competent front end developer and the aesthetic competency you need to have to make something look nice. This is the thing I most often see as completely stopping backend engineers from becoming "full stack".

Full stack != learning react.

whalesalad · 9 years ago
So true. Full stack is understanding the layers of a modern web stack like basic webserver/port binding knowledge, basic unix skills, http, DNS, rest, serving apis, consuming apis, using queues for background jobs, database schema, avoiding n+1 queries, authentication mechanisms for browsers and clients, email (dkim+spf), serving assets, handling browser caching issues, the list goes on... an SPA with react is really just touching the surface.
jaredsohn · 9 years ago
That's not what the GP said; the GP was arguing from the other direction saying that to be considered full stack you need to understand design, too.
jshmrsn · 9 years ago
I hadn't heard the term "n+1 queries" before, thanks for mentioning it. That's something I deal with often, but didn't know it had a specific name. https://secure.phabricator.com/book/phabcontrib/article/n_pl...
lcw · 9 years ago
I don't think aesthetics play very much if any role in being a effective front end developer. Look at Craigslist the thing is terribly ugly and dated but still widely used and functional. The aesthetics look like someone with no taste in design or modern UX wrote it. If someone writes the next CraigsList by your definition are they not a successful front end developer? Sure having a taste for design is nice but hardly necessary to be successful at the craft.
mrits · 9 years ago
Craigslist is actually a great design. Just imagine if a UX developer had their way with it. It would look like myspace.
debaserab2 · 9 years ago
No, they are not a successful front end developer.

It is possible to have a successful website without having good front development.

It's possible to create a lot of useful things that don't have good design.

FanaHOVA · 9 years ago
Craigslist wasn't built today. Name any recent product with the same design.
oretoz · 9 years ago
You have a valid point. Do you have pointers to learning Design for a programmer? I know about book 'Deisgn for hackers' and there are many resources on Photoshop/Sketch etc. but I haven't found nifty little projects like you have in programming where you design, say a toy compiler. Also Photoshop/Sketch are paid and/or platform specific. Any useful pointers would help.
ConAntonakos · 9 years ago
Unrelated, but is there a good list for machine learning?
j_s · 9 years ago
I will spam you with my uncurated collection I've hoarded for just from the past few months here on HN:

CS 20SI: Tensorflow for Deep Learning Research http://web.stanford.edu/class/cs20si/syllabus.html https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13781067

A visual introduction to probability and statistics http://students.brown.edu/seeing-theory/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13735714

Mathematicians becoming data scientists: Should you? How to? https://quomodocumque.wordpress.com/2017/02/26/mathematician...https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13739687

good beginner tutorials for Stan or probabilistic programming in general http://camdavidsonpilon.github.io/Probabilistic-Programming-...https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13742102

Supporting the AI Talent Pipeline https://medium.com/@mark_riedl/supporting-the-ai-talent-pipe...

Georgia Tech Offers Online Master of Science in Analytics Degree for Under $10K https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13382263

Practical Deep Learning For Coders http://course.fast.ai/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13224588

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13599074 (learn or be a dinosaur)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13605222 ($1k machine)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13588070 (oxford deep nlp)

Coding The Matrix: Linear Algebra Through Computer Science Applications http://codingthematrix.com/

mkalygin · 9 years ago
Here is the good guide to deep learning: http://yerevann.com/a-guide-to-deep-learning/
fizixer · 9 years ago
FWIW, a "super harsh" guide to (learning) ML [1] was posted on reddit a few days ago.

[1] https://redd.it/5z8110

lacampbell · 9 years ago
Shameless request for advice - what's the simplest way of deploying stuff to a VPS?

I want to somehow set up an identical environment on my dev machine, and on a VPS in another continent (too much latency to edit files on directly). Ideally I'd then be able to deploy from a dev environment identical to my production environment. I tried docker but debugging the containers did my head in. I was thinking of trying VM images with vagrant, but I'd love to know if there is a simpler solution to this.

I'm just one person doing it in their spare time.

sillysaurus3 · 9 years ago
One solution is to set up a droplet which serves a website from /home/deploy/web/site/ on the server. Then to deploy:

rsync -Pa ./site/ deploy@your-domain.com:/home/deploy/web/site/

Note: The trailing slashes are important.

I use nodemon to watch /home/deploy/web/site/ for changes, which restarts the server. There are tools like nodemon for whatever stack you're using (rails, etc).

ldonley · 9 years ago
Maybe I am biased, but I agree with the other user on here that Ansible is a good solution for keeping the environments the same.

However, if you're feeling brave, you should definitely check out OpenShift (community version at http://openshift.org). OpenShift is basically Kubernetes with a bunch of cool stuff added, one especially useful feature is source-to-image.

It pulls your code from a scm repo and finds a builder image (or you can choose one) and it will build the docker image for you. You can have it pull whenever there is new code and rebuild the image and deploy if you want.

On top of that you get lots of cool docker orchestration features.

ing33k · 9 years ago
simple solution is just using shell scripts.

if you are looking for a product who's primary goal is to create identical machine images check out Packer https://www.packer.io/intro

haikuginger · 9 years ago
I really like Ansible. It provides a declarative framework for defining "roles" a server might have, and requires a minimal toolkit to get started- no images to deploy; just define the state the server should be in at the end of the playbook.
closed · 9 years ago
If docker didn't work for you, because it didn't feel enough like having a virtual machine you can tinker with, then vagrant might be a good choice.
59nadir · 9 years ago
"How you can create your frontend and a mediocre backend all in one language, because you're lazy or looking to cash in on the web!"
onion2k · 9 years ago
"Those people have worked out an easy way to make money without working very hard! The fools!"

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sly010 · 9 years ago
Looks more like "my-stack web development".
siddharthgdas · 9 years ago
Thank you so much