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siftrics commented on Robinhood Crypto Gets Wells Notice from US SEC   reuters.com/business/fina... · Posted by u/bdcravens
gamblor956 · 2 years ago
A trading instrument can be both a commodity and a security and thus subject to regulation by the CFTC and the SEC.

Most issuers try very hard to keep their instrument in one bucket to avoid the kind of issues that cryptocurrencies are dealing with.

siftrics · 2 years ago
I should have said "the derivatives in question" instead of simply "derivatives".

My point stands: OP claimed that most trading volume happens in securities and it simply does not. I highly doubt securities amount to more than the $20 quadrillion settled in the CFTC's realm last week.

I'm not claiming the jurisdictions of the CFTC and SEC are mutually exclusive. My point stands.

siftrics commented on Robinhood Crypto Gets Wells Notice from US SEC   reuters.com/business/fina... · Posted by u/bdcravens
JumpCrisscross · 2 years ago
SEC regulates securities-based derivatives. I used to professionally make markets in those.

SEC and CFTC are both claiming jurisdiction over Bitcoin.

siftrics · 2 years ago
Correct. And this case hinges on the yet undecided question as to whether or not Bitcoin and numerous other cryptocurrencies are actually securities.
siftrics commented on Robinhood Crypto Gets Wells Notice from US SEC   reuters.com/business/fina... · Posted by u/bdcravens
ajross · 2 years ago
Again, that's wrong. The CFTC absolutely does not handle regulation of options and bond funds and ETFs, etc... You seem to be invoking this "commodities" thing as a trick, and that's not how it works. We've seen this repeatably now where the SEC has to come at crypto outfits with a cluebat and explain to them (in court!) that yes: crypto assets are securities. Why do you really think it's going to be different this time?
siftrics · 2 years ago
From the CFTC's official website:

"The Commodity Futures Trading Commission is an independent U.S. government agency that regulates the U.S. derivatives markets, including futures, options, and swaps."

Also from their official website: 20 quadrillion per week in settled trades. Too lazy to look up the equities numbers, but I would bet everything I own it's lower.

Also from the CFTC's website:

"Bitcoin is considered a commodity and is the underlying asset in bitcoin futures contracts… Bitcoin futures contracts — like other commodity futures contracts such as corn futures, market index futures, or gold futures — are regulated by the CFTC and must trade on CFTC-regulated exchanges."

siftrics commented on Robinhood Crypto Gets Wells Notice from US SEC   reuters.com/business/fina... · Posted by u/bdcravens
ajross · 2 years ago
> The vast majority of arbitrage of fungible assets happens in commodities, not securities.

Yeah, I'm gonna say no to that. I don't have numbers but if total trading volume on commodities is anything more than a tiny fraction of stock/derivatives trading on any given day I eat my proverbial hat.

Regardless, "The CFTC needs to sue us, not the SEC" isn't the argument being made by Robinhood either.

siftrics · 2 years ago
Derivatives are governed by the CFTC not the SEC.

It does matter, because they aren't doing anything wrong if these crypto assets are considered commodities and not securities.

Also, just because a government agency is suing you, that doesn't mean it has any legal or moral imperative. I don't see your point.

siftrics commented on Robinhood Crypto Gets Wells Notice from US SEC   reuters.com/business/fina... · Posted by u/bdcravens
jprete · 2 years ago
Ok, but these are clearly not commodities.
siftrics · 2 years ago
Why not? It is highly litigated and still abundantly unclear whether certain cryptocurrencies are securities or commodities. That's the whole point of these legal battles. If it was clear, they would not be ongoing.
siftrics commented on Robinhood Crypto Gets Wells Notice from US SEC   reuters.com/business/fina... · Posted by u/bdcravens
ajross · 2 years ago
There is no accusation of fraud here. What seems to be happening is, as with similar enforcement actions, Robinhood is being dinged for trading securities improperly, without ticking off the legal requirements for notification, tracking, authentication, etc...

The idea that crypto assets aren't "securities" and thus not subject to SEC regulation is, and always has been, laughable. Virtually everyone trading these things is doing so to engage in arbitrage of fungible assets to make money. I mean, come on.

siftrics · 2 years ago
The vast majority of arbitrage of fungible assets happens in commodities, not securities. The SEC regulates securities. The CFTC regulates commodities.
siftrics commented on Volcker's Announcement of Anti-Inflation Measures   federalreservehistory.org... · Posted by u/neom
t1pster · 2 years ago
siftrics · 2 years ago
That's theatrics. Everyone on Wall Street and Main Street knows the true cost of living — housing, gas, and grocery prices — has increased dramatically more than any Fed-anointed number with the word "inflation" near it.
siftrics commented on Volcker's Announcement of Anti-Inflation Measures   federalreservehistory.org... · Posted by u/neom
avidphantasm · 2 years ago
It seems we are in a similar situation today (though not exactly the same as unemployment is generally low). At some point, it seems fairly obvious that high rates will start causing inflation as the cost of borrowing money is a factor of production for many goods and services. As much as I like earning fat interest on my savings, rates probably need to come down quite a bit (though not back to zero, which causes it’s own problems).
siftrics · 2 years ago
Inflation far outpaces whatever "fat interest" rates you have on your savings. You need to hold real assets, not fiat currency.

u/siftrics

KarmaCake day932November 14, 2019View Original