Good. There's nothing else stopping EVs from mass adoption besides these artificial barriers. You cannot undermine progress forever. I bet the auto factory workers are told they are supposed to feel upset about this. They should feel upset, because their government hasn't addressed the global shift to EVs sooner.
Canada has a toothless EV mandate that is actively undermined by both its own domestic auto industry which on the whole is basically refusing to make them -- and when they do price them only as luxury vehicles.
But also by its political right, and at least one of its national newspapers which is continually running anti-EV FUD. Not the least because our second largest sector in the country (after manufacturing) is oil&gas, and the energy sector is the most powerful political-economic block in the country and the source of ideological power & influence in the western half of the country.
Similar tensions in the US.
There are active disinformation campaigns about EVs running constantly, and if you follow the money it always ends up back at the petroleum sector.
This is the wrong take. Economic dependence on China is a massive national security threat. Exporting your manufacturing base to a nation that opposes the fundamental values of a nation is completely suicidal, and if war ever occurs, you’re toast. China is increasingly belligerent with their excess industrial capacity, engaging in dumping and overproducing to cut out competing non-Chinese manufacturers. They engage heavily in IP theft.
Allowing critical manufacturing supply chains to move to China is stupid.
> Exporting your manufacturing base to a nation that opposes the fundamental values of a nation is completely suicidal
How do you feel about integrating your manufacturing base with a nation that opposes the fundamental values of our nation, and constantly fantasizes about annexing our nation?
Unless you're arguing for Canada to make its own EV manufacturing industry independently from both China and America?
The problem is that as of now, the dependence on USA is more destabilizing. It is a country that has fundamental values difference against Canada, threatened Canada just recently and if war occurs, it is huge issue for Canada.
What's the alternative to Canada? To be depended on the states who, very openly, threaten them on every possible occasion?
Unfortunately, it's not 2000s/2010s anymore, and rules of the game have changed. Most countries realize that there is a future that's not purely Pax-Americana (including USA as well). Sovereign nations will choose what's best for them and their future, especially in the cases of a neighbouring bully.
Palmer Lucky touched on this last week - how China would love to slowly winnow away American automobile manufacturing capacity, because that capacity would be converted to wartime production in the event of a large scale war.
Serious question: hasn't the western world largely exporting their manufacturing base to China for everything, just not EVs/batteries? There is a major conflict here between corporate profits vs national security. Consumers generally don't care about vague concepts like national security if it makes things cheaper.
China has been a stable and reliable trading partner with Canada for a long time. Canada is far too small a country to produce everything it needs within it's own borders. If anyone ever declares war on Canada then we're toast, so we're best not going out of our way to make enemies with the world's dominant superpowers –one of which is actively threatening our sovereignty.
First, dependence on the US hasn’t exactly worked out very well for us the past year. As a smaller nation, Canada has to be dependent on its trade with more powerful nations, and that comes with risks regardless of what nation we’re dependent on.
Second, I don’t buy your fear mongering about China. There’s not much fundamentally different about China and western nations in 2025. They’re a capitalist society prioritizing growth at all costs, same as every other western nation. China is not interested in war, and has stated that consistently over the years.
Third, as far as “critical manufacturing supply chains” go, extremely inefficient luxury personal vehicles don’t fit that definition.
Canada already isn’t economically independent. Diversification is fine, especially if it saves costs that can then be deliberately redirected towards improving sovereign capabilities. Right now we have the worst of both worlds, we pay top much for stuff or can’t get it, and remain completely dependent on the US and China.
We could and should further diversify by removing whatever barriers are keeping European cars out.
The neoliberals didn't care about national security when they shifted the manufacturing and jobs to China for profit. They were outplayed by the Chinese.
My anger lies with the neoliberal elites not the Chinese. The elites can go die on the battlefield. Its their mess.
Mass adoption of EVs is inevitable anyway. It's just a matter of being say 5 years behind China. Even if those 5 years now look like 10% vs 50% market share, in 10 years they will mean nothing.
>Good. There's nothing else stopping EVs from mass adoption besides these artificial barriers.
EVs arent able to function in -40c That happens in Canada every year.
Anything under 0c has risk of freezing the lithium battery's electrolyte and will have very very significant capacity loss; not to mention damaging cells. That's a huge problem for Canada.
I look forward to solid state batteries having far better low temp performance.
None of the 4 biggest Canadian cities have EVER had -40C temperatures. No, wind chill does not count.
In fact, most years they’re not even getting to -30C, and if it does happen it’s only for 1 to 2 days. The rest of the time you’re dealing with average -10C, which China also regularly deals with. But guess what, even if you can’t use your EV one day out of 364 days that’s not that big a deal. Most people should just stay home that day.
The source is I’m Canadian and lived in Ottawa for a decade.
Any place that regularly gets below -40C (in other words, places colder than Edmonton) has block heater plugs in parking spots. You can hook your EV up to the block heater plug and it'll keep your battery warm. In the summer that plug will also charge your car. In the winter, it just keeps the battery warm. Which incidentally helps range because a warm battery lasts a lot longer than a cold one.
If you're not plugged in, your EV should be using its stored energy to keep the battery alive, which it can do for several days.
Are you seriously suggesting that Chinese automobile companies exporting to Europe and possibly North America are oblivious to the existence of winter? Their own country has cities like Harbin where temperatures can reach -35.
I love how you went back and edited post-facto to try to shore up your claim. Come on.
Edmonton, where I'm actually from, has had record lows of -40, but these are extreme outliers. When people speak of -40 in Edmonton they mean wind chill, not real temps. Look at a scatter plot of actual temperatures in Edmonton and it's really not the drama you're implying.
Cold climate is not the barrier to EV adoption. Pricing (and politics) is. Anywhere in the world where EVs have been price competitive to ICE vehicles, consumers have preferred them.
There are political / economic interests in Canada (and North America generally) that absolutely do not want EV adoption. One would expect that from an oil&gas producing nation. Doesn't mean that reasonable people who understand that climate change is an actual thing should support this position.
Can anyone elaborate on why Canada has 100% tariffs on EVs? I think I know why the US does: lobbying by American automakers. Did the US threaten Canada unless they followed suit a long time ago, and is this change a sign that leverage is now lost?
Canada has a large car industry itself - 100% might be excessive, but every western nation now faces a choice between tariffs on EVs or letting their car industry be completely eviscerated with hundreds of thousands of job losses
They can also be incoherent. Don't know about Canada, but here in France we also have a bunch of auto manufacturers and the government seems completely lunatic with these policies.
On the one hand, there's a very strong push to reduce car usage. In Paris, the speed limit has been reduced to 30 km/h, 50 on the ring road, many lanes and parking have been removed to improve bike infrastructure. Then, when sales drop and jobs are on the line, those same people are absolutely shocked.
Now, personally, I'm all for reducing traffic in cities. I'm not particularly keen on breathing exhaust all day every day or getting run over by two tons of steel. Sure, a whole debate can be had on specific use cases, people living where there's no public transit, etc. But my point is that you can't, on the one hand, push for something, then be angry when you obtain the consequences.
Up until a few years ago, there was a very hard push for diesel engines. Local companies invested a lot in those. Now these engines are practically banned, and even gasoline ones aren't faring too well. So, automakers have to scramble to move to electric, but it takes time. While other companies, built from the ground up to this, already have models head and shoulders above what we can produce. And politicians, true to nature, come up with all kinds of weird incentives. They've recently introduced a weight tax on vehicles [0]. On the face of it, it's an "SUV-tax" to limit "gas-guzzlers". Cue surprised faces when they realize a Tesla weighs as much as an SUV (I'm talking European models here, so no absurd Escalades or what have you).
[0] This is France, so laws have exceptions. Electrics get an "allowance", which basically reduces the mass considered for the tax. But it's not entirely clear how that works. Ditto for hybrids.
The “U.S.” car industry is actually the North American car industry. Factories are in Canada, Mexico and the U.S. primarily and parts move across the border duty-free. This dates back to the Auto-pact.
Canada almost certainly does not want to allow Chinese made vehicles to undercut their local producers. Any talk of this is just posturing and threats in the ongoing trade negotiations.
Trump says he wants every car sold in the United States to be made domestically.
The old integrated cross-border auto manufacturing system is over. Stellantis is already moving production of Jeep from Brampton to Illinois, and others are expected to follow.
Because the Canadian auto industry is twin-joined to the American auto industry. A lot of parts that go to the American cars are made in Ontario.
Now, since his American majesty decided to throw away the Canadian auto industry we don't have anything to protect. Better to make deals with the Chinese now, before the whole American auto industry is destroyed.
Partially competition, as a couple of provinces have large car manufacturing. (Ontario and Quebec, mostly). Partially that there's no repair or maintenance infrastructure, nor guarantee a car will keep functioning if (say) the manufacturer shuts down or a model gets discontinued.
As to how much of which, that's a good question, and not one I've seen any answers to.
Canada has something like 500k jobs tied up in the automobile industry. This plays a larger role in the decision than “US strategy” but I am assuming with this stupid trade war it can tip the balance to reducing that tariff.
The Canadian and American automotive industry was (until very recently) tightly integrated. 1 in 10 American cars were made in Canada, with parts going back and forth across the border sometimes multiple times in the assembly chain. The automotive sector is also a significant portion of Ontario’s GDP.
So a lot of incentive for Canada to side with America on this. But Trump blew up that relationship, and this is the consequence.
> Canada announced Monday it is launching a 100% tariff on imports of Chinese-made electric vehicles, matching U.S. tariffs imposed over what Western governments say are China’s subsidies that give its industry an unfair advantage.
> The announcement came after encouragement by U.S. national security advisor Jake Sullivan during a meeting with Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Cabinet ministers Sunday.
You need to understand: for every tariff the US places on China, the more excess industrial capacity that China needs to direct elsewhere. It goes for steel, autos and more. This means, since America sanctioned Chinese steel, China has been dumping their steel into Canadian markets. With the excess electric car capacity unable to be absorbed by America, China wants to direct it elsewhere. If they start exporting to Canada, this excess capacity will completely destroy automotive manufacturing in Canada, leading to mass layoffs and entire industrial supply chains falling apart. This will inevitably lead to political instability as a large portion of second tier cities in Ontario start having a labour crisis.
This is evidently not ideal. I bore witness to manufacturing completely leave my hometown, third tier city over the span of a decade. Today, there is little economic opportunity in that town, with massive drug abuse, and petty crime. It used to be a nice place, and working in a factory earned you an honest living. Unfettered trade with China killed places like this, destroying an entire generation.
At the end of the day, wanting electric cars from China depends on your values, do you want incredibly cheap electric vehicles, even if it means destroying an entire industry that the largest province in the country relies upon? Or do you want to maintain a functional manufacturing base that is critical to political and social stability?
The outsourcing of American manufacturing was done by the American Corporate Elites. I hope some of your anger is directed towards them.
Lutnick has already stated that America wants all vehicles for sale in America to be built in America. Any vehicles built outside America will be tariffed.
Sure, the Chinese will destroy Canadian any auto-manufacturing left for the domestic market, but it is the Trump administration's stated goal to dismantle the Canadian auto-sector, which is happening now.
Not "set to", more like "considering to". But I very much hope we do it.
Cons: it will probably be the death sentence to the Canadian auto industry.
Pros: the gas engine auto industry is dying already anyway, with or without a deal with the Chinese. Besides, if we make the deal now, at least we can sell canola and pork to them.
It already has a death sentence on the calendar: 2035
This is a direct response to tariffs. Canada is done playing nice with its big jerk trading partner and will be opening its options to achieve this goal if the tariffs aren't lifted.
Worth considering at least, and looking at approaches like you mentioned and avoiding allowing free entry of foreign vehicles. We could consider partnerships (if China is interested) like we have with other foreign manufacturers like Honda and Toyota. We should also be considering expanding the existing relationships, though I'm sure there are retooling costs, and possibly playing hardball with other manufacturers to encourage them to setup shop (e.g. Kia/Hyundai).
I doubt I'm offering anything that hasn't been part of discussions already, but having the ability to manufacture vehicles seems like an area of industrialization a country shouldn't part with lightly.
It'd be nice to us dropping to 30% like the EU worked out with China... or even 50% if that is enough to get canola tariffs dropped.
I drive a Polestar2, a Chinese (Geely) produced EV. The quality is good. The price for what it is... too high. And now most support for it is being dropped and sales networks in North America drying up because of these tariffs and political moves.
Canada has an unique advantage in dealing with China that many don't realize or underestimate. Unlike many other countries, Canada holds a very special place for many Chinese people. Dr. Norman Bethune, who died during World War II while working in a field hospital, is a highly respected physician and a household name in China; There was a very catchy song from a Canadian potash TV commercial that many Chinese people remember from the early days when many Chinese watch the TV for the first time; Mark Henry Rowswell (aka Dashan) is perhaps the best-known stand-up comedian in China. Overall, I’d say Canada occupies a warm and special place in the hearts of Chinese people, including the age group of current administration. I don’t understand how the two countries have become hostile toward each other.
OTOH, Europe has set their Chinese EV tariffs up at a defensible level. They're nominally set up in a way to offset subsidies. Canada should have set up its tariffs at the European level.
Now it's probably too late, its a political football. Canada will either make a deal with China or the US in exchange for those tariffs.
Readit News
Canada literally has an EV mandate: https://tc.canada.ca/en/road-transportation/innovative-techn...
Canada has also worked on developing an EV industry: https://electricautonomy.ca/ev-supply-chain/manufacturing/20...
But also by its political right, and at least one of its national newspapers which is continually running anti-EV FUD. Not the least because our second largest sector in the country (after manufacturing) is oil&gas, and the energy sector is the most powerful political-economic block in the country and the source of ideological power & influence in the western half of the country.
Similar tensions in the US.
There are active disinformation campaigns about EVs running constantly, and if you follow the money it always ends up back at the petroleum sector.
Allowing critical manufacturing supply chains to move to China is stupid.
How do you feel about integrating your manufacturing base with a nation that opposes the fundamental values of our nation, and constantly fantasizes about annexing our nation?
Unless you're arguing for Canada to make its own EV manufacturing industry independently from both China and America?
Unfortunately, it's not 2000s/2010s anymore, and rules of the game have changed. Most countries realize that there is a future that's not purely Pax-Americana (including USA as well). Sovereign nations will choose what's best for them and their future, especially in the cases of a neighbouring bully.
and instead dependence on the U.S.?
Deleted Comment
Second, I don’t buy your fear mongering about China. There’s not much fundamentally different about China and western nations in 2025. They’re a capitalist society prioritizing growth at all costs, same as every other western nation. China is not interested in war, and has stated that consistently over the years.
Third, as far as “critical manufacturing supply chains” go, extremely inefficient luxury personal vehicles don’t fit that definition.
We could and should further diversify by removing whatever barriers are keeping European cars out.
My anger lies with the neoliberal elites not the Chinese. The elites can go die on the battlefield. Its their mess.
Dead Comment
EVs arent able to function in -40c That happens in Canada every year.
Anything under 0c has risk of freezing the lithium battery's electrolyte and will have very very significant capacity loss; not to mention damaging cells. That's a huge problem for Canada.
I look forward to solid state batteries having far better low temp performance.
Our northern most cities like Edmonton get to -40c and -50c regularly: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-extreme-cold...
Fair, yes, my city only ever really gets down to -20c. Yes I own an EV that's outside 365.
To expect much EV adoption in Canada is foolish though.
>hey should feel upset, because their government hasn't addressed the global shift to EVs sooner.
Our government has heavily invested in EVs for like 15 years. This is a bizarre take.
None of the 4 biggest Canadian cities have EVER had -40C temperatures. No, wind chill does not count.
In fact, most years they’re not even getting to -30C, and if it does happen it’s only for 1 to 2 days. The rest of the time you’re dealing with average -10C, which China also regularly deals with. But guess what, even if you can’t use your EV one day out of 364 days that’s not that big a deal. Most people should just stay home that day.
The source is I’m Canadian and lived in Ottawa for a decade.
If you're not plugged in, your EV should be using its stored energy to keep the battery alive, which it can do for several days.
China has significant climatic variation, and Harbin (for example) at around 45 degree latitude is right in line with Montreal.
https://english.news.cn/20230712/a56c80cac8e749f0bcf02579463...
Edmonton, where I'm actually from, has had record lows of -40, but these are extreme outliers. When people speak of -40 in Edmonton they mean wind chill, not real temps. Look at a scatter plot of actual temperatures in Edmonton and it's really not the drama you're implying.
Cold climate is not the barrier to EV adoption. Pricing (and politics) is. Anywhere in the world where EVs have been price competitive to ICE vehicles, consumers have preferred them.
There are political / economic interests in Canada (and North America generally) that absolutely do not want EV adoption. One would expect that from an oil&gas producing nation. Doesn't mean that reasonable people who understand that climate change is an actual thing should support this position.
On the one hand, there's a very strong push to reduce car usage. In Paris, the speed limit has been reduced to 30 km/h, 50 on the ring road, many lanes and parking have been removed to improve bike infrastructure. Then, when sales drop and jobs are on the line, those same people are absolutely shocked.
Now, personally, I'm all for reducing traffic in cities. I'm not particularly keen on breathing exhaust all day every day or getting run over by two tons of steel. Sure, a whole debate can be had on specific use cases, people living where there's no public transit, etc. But my point is that you can't, on the one hand, push for something, then be angry when you obtain the consequences.
Up until a few years ago, there was a very hard push for diesel engines. Local companies invested a lot in those. Now these engines are practically banned, and even gasoline ones aren't faring too well. So, automakers have to scramble to move to electric, but it takes time. While other companies, built from the ground up to this, already have models head and shoulders above what we can produce. And politicians, true to nature, come up with all kinds of weird incentives. They've recently introduced a weight tax on vehicles [0]. On the face of it, it's an "SUV-tax" to limit "gas-guzzlers". Cue surprised faces when they realize a Tesla weighs as much as an SUV (I'm talking European models here, so no absurd Escalades or what have you).
[0] This is France, so laws have exceptions. Electrics get an "allowance", which basically reduces the mass considered for the tax. But it's not entirely clear how that works. Ditto for hybrids.
Canada almost certainly does not want to allow Chinese made vehicles to undercut their local producers. Any talk of this is just posturing and threats in the ongoing trade negotiations.
The old integrated cross-border auto manufacturing system is over. Stellantis is already moving production of Jeep from Brampton to Illinois, and others are expected to follow.
Now, since his American majesty decided to throw away the Canadian auto industry we don't have anything to protect. Better to make deals with the Chinese now, before the whole American auto industry is destroyed.
As to how much of which, that's a good question, and not one I've seen any answers to.
So a lot of incentive for Canada to side with America on this. But Trump blew up that relationship, and this is the consequence.
> The announcement came after encouragement by U.S. national security advisor Jake Sullivan during a meeting with Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Cabinet ministers Sunday.
- AP News, August 26, 2024
https://apnews.com/article/canada-china-evs-tariffs-0cd68ba7...
Deleted Comment
This is evidently not ideal. I bore witness to manufacturing completely leave my hometown, third tier city over the span of a decade. Today, there is little economic opportunity in that town, with massive drug abuse, and petty crime. It used to be a nice place, and working in a factory earned you an honest living. Unfettered trade with China killed places like this, destroying an entire generation.
At the end of the day, wanting electric cars from China depends on your values, do you want incredibly cheap electric vehicles, even if it means destroying an entire industry that the largest province in the country relies upon? Or do you want to maintain a functional manufacturing base that is critical to political and social stability?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Carney
Lutnick has already stated that America wants all vehicles for sale in America to be built in America. Any vehicles built outside America will be tariffed.
Sure, the Chinese will destroy Canadian any auto-manufacturing left for the domestic market, but it is the Trump administration's stated goal to dismantle the Canadian auto-sector, which is happening now.
Cons: it will probably be the death sentence to the Canadian auto industry.
Pros: the gas engine auto industry is dying already anyway, with or without a deal with the Chinese. Besides, if we make the deal now, at least we can sell canola and pork to them.
This is a direct response to tariffs. Canada is done playing nice with its big jerk trading partner and will be opening its options to achieve this goal if the tariffs aren't lifted.
It's not clear from that sentence who you mean, so I was clarifying.
I doubt I'm offering anything that hasn't been part of discussions already, but having the ability to manufacture vehicles seems like an area of industrialization a country shouldn't part with lightly.
I drive a Polestar2, a Chinese (Geely) produced EV. The quality is good. The price for what it is... too high. And now most support for it is being dropped and sales networks in North America drying up because of these tariffs and political moves.
How I'd love to see Geely set up a plant here.
Deleted Comment
OTOH, Europe has set their Chinese EV tariffs up at a defensible level. They're nominally set up in a way to offset subsidies. Canada should have set up its tariffs at the European level.
Now it's probably too late, its a political football. Canada will either make a deal with China or the US in exchange for those tariffs.