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Posted by u/silvercymbals 5 months ago
Ask HN: Can't get hired – what's next?
Hey HN,

I feel like I've wasted the better part of my twenties trying to be a professional software engineer and founding two companies. Fortunately I have some money to show for it and I learned a lot, but at this point it seems I'm functionally unemployable / have skills that just don't make the cut anymore.

Building with AI is incredible, but when I get interviews I just flat out can't pass tech screens anymore. I've gotten lucky with a few "forward deployed" roles but for whatever reason, never get a callback after the final round.

I really enjoy software, but I need to actually figure something out that's a real career (earns more than $150k per annum). I'm sort of freaking out given that all this time and money I spent to become an engineer appears to be going to waste. It's been about four months and the prospects just aren't showing up like they used to.

Also, I have zero interest in 996 startup culture. How on earth it became impossible as an american to get a job in software where you make a decent salary and work 50hr weeks is sort of beyond my comprehension as someone in Gen Z.

Curious for advice or if anyone else has made the leap outside of tech. I fear for my mental health and stability if I don't figure something out soon. I flat out just don't know where I want to go next, even applying to sales roles has fallen flat.

I have good contacts for law school, but the notion of burning $200k on the chance that law is still a viable career with AI seems like an even worse decision than logic I applied in my 20s.

Cheers.

gridspy · 5 months ago
If you want to stay in the bay area and leverage your experience, perhaps you want to become a technical co-founder for someone?

Otherwise it might make sense to move out of the bay area to where there are lower costs of living and then lower your salary expectations to match.

Bear in mind that being a good corporate drone or middle manager requires different soft skills and attitude than being the CEO of your own company. You have to march to someone else's drum which can be hard.

You need to prove to yourself and others that you can be a regular developer now, you're in a position where you might need to sacrifice salary, job description and/or working conditions to get a foot back on the ladder.

Beyond salary, the culture of working hours in the bay area might be a bad fit for you. If you're looking for a boring (in a good way) salaryman programmer role you might need to see where those sort of companies are centred.

Note, I live and work outside the US so I can't give specific US advice.

silvercymbals · 5 months ago
I've considered this. But I really just want a real salary. If I could find this and make $120k in the bay (barely survivable) I'd consider it - but I would really prefer to have a normal job with a dependable salary.

I was previously in the bay, but I'm back in Austin for a while - which fortunately is dirt cheap.

ProfessorLayton · 5 months ago
I’m sorry but this is wild, but you want:

- A salary that is ~15% higher than the median Bay Area household, which consists of ~2.6 people. And as an individual you’re calling it “barely survivable”.

or a

- A salary that is 40% higher than the median household in Austin TX, which consists of 2.7 people. The median individual makes about $52,223 in Austin.

Am I reading this right? On top of this you seem to have a negative and entitled attitude, based on your other responses.

EstanislaoStan · 5 months ago
Hello from Fargo, ND! I make peanuts but it's the least stressful job I've ever had.
burnt-resistor · 5 months ago
I'm an IC6 SRE and can't afford to live in the SF Bay Area where I grew up. The area around the 100th meridian west is much cheaper. The Bay Area has become a bastion of rich assholes from around the world gentrifying the cost of living and home prices, and old people with Prop 13 who never move while everyone else younger than them languishes paying much more property taxes. Boomers, on average, ruined the world with their selfishness and failed to pay it forward as the Greatest generation did for them.
leakycap · 5 months ago
You have set a high goal of $150k salary without a clear way to achieve it, or a clear passion, if I'm reading correctly.

What is your depth of knowledge in? You say software?

Law would be an risk idea if you don't love it with all your heart, even people who love law hate it by the end of law school.

jinushaun · 5 months ago
$150k is not a crazy number. That’s not even inside the senior engineer salary band.

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red-iron-pine · 5 months ago
150 is like painfully mid-level IT in a tech hub. Like I jumped from that in the RDU area of NC to something much higher.

competitive in other parts of the US, perhaps, but for serious dyed-in-the-wool devs it's piddly

silvercymbals · 5 months ago
People on HN saying $150k is a "high bar" is frankly insulting. Anyone in the bay who's not a founder or working for a meaningless company easily clears $200k.

I've started two companies, exited one and technically have the skills of a "senior engineer". I've managed teams of engineers and have architected remote factory production systems for one of my companies along with a dozen or so relatively complex web apps in the fintech space.

jlarocco · 5 months ago
> Anyone in the bay who's not a founder or working for a meaningless company easily clears $200k.

Maybe your attitude is why you can't find a job?

Nothing in your post indicates you're "in the bay", and in the other 99% of the country $150k is a decent salary.

TylerLives · 5 months ago
Why can't other people recognize how great you are?
mothballed · 5 months ago
I recently paid a guy about $10k to roof my house. $3500 materials, ~$6500 labor. Maybe 32 hours labor tops, it is a hella small house. Might be worth looking into. He was cheaper than pretty much anyone else.
aaronrobinson · 5 months ago
This reply makes you sound like you’re up your own arse.

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rsynnott · 5 months ago
You’re coming across in this thread as, er, honestly pretty insufferable. This likely isn’t doing you any favours in interviews; you may want to work on that. _Particularly_ for senior roles; an asshole junior may be just about tolerable, but an asshole senior can be a real problem and most companies won't want to hire one.
brazukadev · 5 months ago
Now we can clearly see why you can't get a job
walkabout · 5 months ago
Um. That’s tens of thousands over median software developer wages in the US.

I know good developers who’ve done more impressive stuff than that, making at or under this $150k cut-off.

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Dumblydorr · 5 months ago
Adjust your definition of a “real career” as one making over 150k. Another adjustment is thinking 4 months is a long time, especially given you know you could improve interviewing.

Check out data fields. I’m in data analytics, no I don’t make 150k, but it’s a good living and I consider it real. I do a lot of good and save government a lot of money with my tech skills.

schmookeeg · 5 months ago
I wonder what % of the country (much less the world) make less than 150k and this thread is just shitting all over them. 90%? 95%? 98%?

I'm embarrassed by this whole thing.

shawn_w · 5 months ago
Making 150k for even a few years would be completely life altering (in the good way). Probably still wouldn't be able to afford a house where I'm at, but in every other way...

OP comes off as hugely entitled to be honest.

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jinushaun · 5 months ago
I’m in the same boat, but fortunately have a job right now. I’m not sure what I’ll do after this current one.

Seems like the interview pipeline is geared towards new grads and junior engineers and penalize senior and staff. At what point do I stop having to do these silly coding interviews?! At what point does my resume and 20 yrs of experience speak for itself? So called senior/staff interview loops are a joke with toy system design questions. What do you really learn asking “design twitter” 100 times?

The only answer I can come up with is networking. Basically, don’t bother interviewing. 4 of my last 5 jobs were via networking—no interviews.

rozap · 5 months ago
What? I see the opposite. A junior engineer is a tough sell right now. If I'm going to hand hold someone through spewing out some typescript, claude does it for cheaper and can type faster. I know this is shitty, and it feels bad because senior people mentored me back in the day, but for smaller companies, the only thing in the end is survival of the business. The time horizon isn't long enough to think about growing engineers. Again, very bleak, but it is what it is.

Agree with your points on networking being the only way. Interviewing is super broken right now.

jinushaun · 5 months ago
No, I mean the interview loops themselves are still geared towards data structure and algorithm questions even at a senior/staff level. Which if you’re a staff eng dealing with quarter to year long projects, you’re not traversing binary trees.

My main point is that I would NOT be shocked if VP/CTO interviews still asked candidates to code on the whiteboard.

silvercymbals · 5 months ago
Good luck friend :)
neilv · 5 months ago
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silvercymbals · 5 months ago
this has been precisely my experience

frankly, if an offer presented itself for $80k a year I'd take it (it's embarrassing but that's just where I am at the moment)

_whiteCaps_ · 5 months ago
FWIW it's a very challenging job market right now. It took me 7 months to land a job, and I know other people are struggling even longer than that.

Networking seems to be the only way to get past the HR filters.

culll_kuprey · 5 months ago
Seconding this.

Was out of work for a year. The magic solution was a nepo referral.

I love this world!

silvercymbals · 5 months ago
We'll see - have a few leads but hoping to close one of them before November since all hiring grinds to a halt until the new year after November.
rarisma · 5 months ago
I don't really know what it's like in America but 150k here is insane. If you really can't land a job, it's either time for an attitude adjustment or perhaps a third bite at the apple.
rednafi · 5 months ago
I don’t know where you are but 150k is decent at best in most US and Western European big cities. So if someone has a few years of experience under their belt, the expectation isn’t too complacent.
piva00 · 5 months ago
US$150k is not only "decent" in high-income Western European cities (Paris, London, Amsterdam, etc.), it's a huge salary, usually in the top 5% of earners.

This expectation is why software development has become the neo-yuppies of the 2010s-2020s, people with overinflated expectations because they are keeping-up-with-the-Joneses from the internet being loud about their high salaries. Yes, there are people earning a lot in this industry but it's definitely not the norm outside of the inflated US salaries, the USA is the outlier.

silvercymbals · 5 months ago
Look up the average salary of H1B visa holders...

I don't really have any interest arguing what a respectable salary on HN is. The recruiter I was working with clearly stated that $180-200k given my resume was reasonable. America isn't europe.

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silvercymbals · 5 months ago
Looking for opinions from engineers in america.
lschueller · 5 months ago
Sorry to hear you are in this situation. I've been there as well, but sticking in the middle of this is more than nerve wracking and a serious health issue... First, I agree that AI will be shaking up several jobs. But I think that lawyers will also have there aces up the sleeves to keep their business running. Nonetheless, working as one isn't very healthy as well as you always are under pressure to gather enough billables... Niche is always a solution to the mass grinding. Secondly, an advice I once received: looking back at your past jobs, was there something you enjoyed doing besides your main tasks and clocked voluntarily some extrahours, because you were passionate about it? Like the controller, who stepped forward and got a health and safety training, without being paid extra for it, the controller, who wrote a small software tool for easing work processes, the software engineere, who created an onboarding portal for new employees.. Sometimes, people realize, that they already did something, they really enjoyed but never thought about to make it a focus and not just somethin "useful, besides no one else takes care of it"... This hint really helped me to realize, what I was actually good at all the time even though it had nothing to do with my day job and my previous roles.

I wish you all the best in this current situation and hope, things will fall in place quite soon.

silvercymbals · 5 months ago
Thanks!

I really enjoyed the process engineering and problem solving of running my own companies. It's how I ended up managing a small team of engineers. I even lived in China for a few months getting our production setup.

Unfortunately, most companies don't seem to care about this experience or think because it was my own org (with references) it doesn't stand up to actual "PM" / "management" experience.

everyone · 5 months ago
"real career (earns more than $150k per annum)"

"make a decent salary and work 50hr weeks"

You sound incredibly privileged and entitled. I this just a ragebait post?

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