Excellent article. It is very hard to understand a few things about Prusa, lately:
1. The Nextruder looks 5 years behind Bambulab nozzle switching, without to mention the cost of a new nozzle. A clogged nozzle is a non issue in a Bambulab printer, but it causes me a big cost and more work with my MK4 (which has the same extruder as the Core One).
2. How is it possible that these printers still lack at least a cheap webcam?
3. One of the strengths of Prusa should be support. It used to be very good, years ago. Now the issue the OP is reporting about the app that is not able to detect the principal component in the sound of the belt, is an example of a more extended problem, that one can see in many ways, especially in the MK4 / Core One documentation, that is especially lacking.
In general, here the OP is doing the work that Prusa should be doing to provide a better experience, without to mention all the design issues that they are not fixing directly before shipping their printers. I'm also a Bambulab user, and my A1 costed a fraction of my MK4 and it is the printer I always hit because of the zero-issues. It just works.
Now companies may have ups and downs, but there is some problem at Prusa: they are still not understanding what's really happening and where their problems are.
1. I think even on bambu people switch extruder so they have swichable nozzles. Atleast thats what i did on my P1S. There is huge aftermarket with these if you need them.
2. Reasoning i heard is that Prusa printers are used a lot by print farms that dont want them for security reasons and that there are aftermarket cams that are going to be a lot better than what they can deliver. Again cam on Bambu P1S is pretty bad so if you like the feature you end up changing it but because the chip in P1S is pretty low powered you end up adding whole different camera system.
3. This is very good point. I guess they were under pressure to release asap and the docs are rushed / in process. The upside is that they have track record of long support for the products.
I am not sure that they are so clueless.
I’ve had P1S for some time. It’s great. I wanted focus on 3D printing not on 3D printer.
But now? Bambu is update away from not being able to print outside their cloud. There is zero openness. They do everything to stop any kinf of reverse engineering or alternative firmwares. Afaik they might just decide tomorrow that they stop support some of the older models and they simply stop printing.
I still ended up messing, modding, tweaking and learning about the Bambu printer anyway.
But i also found a lot of use for 3D printer. So idea of buying 3x times more expensive printer kit that will take me 20h to assemble and then even more time to tweak to print as good as Bambu… is OK? Almost intruging? I will know that with care it will work for a looong time i will know how it works and it will be valuable knowledge.
It seems a lot like linux vs mac. At some point you bite the bullet and never look back. Or you do and go back.
The Buddy3D camera has a firmware update recently, now it can RTSP stream inside your LAN and you can force day/night detection. Also, it saves timelapses to a local microSD. Still not super cheap, but yeah.
I think someone says this in every HN post involving CAD, but the reason FreeCAD is "buggy" and Solvespace is small and fast is Solvespace has a fraction of the power. FreeCAD uses the Open Cascade kernel, which can do complex 3d boolean and fillet operations, not having these operations severely limits the geometry you can create, and you will run into walls very quickly using Solvespace, OpenSCAD or anything else with a hand rolled geometry kernel. Even commercial projects use an off the shelf kernel, they're just difficult to write.
This is true, but it's not a reason to put buggy in quotes. FreeCAD is, objectively, full of bugs. Running into bugs all the time also limits what you can create. For hobbyist 3d printing purposes, Solvespace and OpenSCAD can cover the vast majority of simple single-part designs.
I could not imagine trying to design a 3d part without fillets. I use Build123d mostly, and have even gone as far as using the Open Cascade library directly, but if I had to choose between FreeCAD or OpenSCAD/Solvespace I would rather work around FreeCADs jank than give up fillets.
Good timing with this. I had an old maker select v2 from ~2015, and at some point, the SD card got jammed in and ripped the card reader off the PCB, so I just ordered a Core One (preassembled) over the weekend. The CoreXY system (and enclosure) seems more elegant than bed-slinging, but it's evidently more fiddly. Hopefully the enclosure also prevents it from accumulating dust as quickly.
You mentioned you stripped one of the tensioners - does a screw thread into a 3d printed part? Is there a more robust version of the part?
> You mentioned you stripped one of the tensioners - does a screw thread into a 3d printed part?
Sort of. A metal screw is threaded into a square nut that sits inside a 3D printed part. All good unless one gets to the end of the screw's motion range, after which the square nut begins to turn inside the plastic part and strips it.
I have printed spares for the plastic part, also I know better than to trust Prusa's frequency detector applet, so this is not a deal breaker once you understand the system. There are much better ways than Prusa's applet to detect the belt's frequency, some described in the linked article.
I didn't realize Paul Lutus had an active blog! I would highly recommend not only reading this post but checking out the author. I read their book Confessions many years ago and it was one of the things that helped push me to look for fulfillment outside of tech.
It looks like he posted this so may see my comment. I just want to say thanks, I appreciate the things you've put out into the world.
There are a large number of "toolchanger" printers out there, include Prusa's XL. They're pretty great: multiple nozzle sizes and types, multi-material and multi-color without a lot of waste, and even the ability to use different tools (like lasers and subtractive manufacturing). In the consumer space the technology is still fairly expensive, and the complexity reduces reliability, but I suspect is going to become more and more of the norm over time.
Most modern printers also support simpler multi-material setups which change the filament in a single tool automatically. Waste is fairly high (because of the need to purge), and speed fairly low (because of the need to purge), but the technology is mature and cheap.
Bambu also has their new 2 head printer the H2D where you can print incompatible materials like PLA and PETG for perfect supports that don't stick to the main print.
The Core One uses a "CoreXY" system where the extruder moves in X and Y directions instead of X and Z, and the bed moves in Z instead of Y. It eliminates issues caused by large prints progressively increasing the mass/momentum on the Y axis, but it requires a more complex system of belts. Also, the Core One only comes in an enclosure, which is good for some materials that need warmer air, but can hinder PLA, which needs cool air.
Generally, it seems like if you just want to reliably print PLA, get a MK4S, but if you want the temp-controlled enclosure or filament versatility, get a Core One.
> What practical reasons are there to choose the Core One over an MK4S or vice-versa?
The Core One has a Core-XY motion system, meaning the print bed doesn't have to move very fast during printing. This greatly speeds up typical printing.
Also there's the issue of Prusa's open-design philosophy -- you're free to modify the printer's hardware and software.
I've never owned a Bambu Labs printer, so I might not be the best source for a point-by-point comparison.
This article highlights why Bambu has been eating Prusa's lunch the past few years. Imagine spending over $1000 then needing to print parts to get it to work properly.
I swapped my Ender5 for an X1C two years ago, and since then, I have only had to do whatever maintenance the X1C tells me. Using my X1C feels much closer to using my laser paper printer, whereas my Ender5 ended up being a hobby in itself.
While skimming through this I was thinking "this is a PR disaster", because people are going to see the contrived, extreme ways this guy has fucked up his Prusa printer to illustrate his how-to and think it's representative of the printer that they would receive if they ordered one.
If we're comparing, it would be useful to look at the way these things are done on a Bambu printer.
Z-axis and XY-axis calibration: Designed to be unnecessary. Not possible with stock software. Possible with Orcaslicer on old or custom firmware, in which case the procedure would look similar.
Belt tensioning: Similar, but easier and better designed (no half-baked app involved).
Camera: Bambu also requires an account, I believe. Other than that, it's much better: it comes with the printer, is in color, has a light, runs at a useful framerate, and can take offline timelapses.
I don't think the comparison is positive for Prusa.
> ... I was thinking "this is a PR disaster", because people are going to see the contrived, extreme ways this guy has fucked up his Prusa printer to illustrate his how-to and think it's representative of the printer that they would receive if they ordered one.
Fair comment, but Bambu Labs owners have similar issues on a much less open platform where they can't DIY themselves to a solution.
I'm a bit old-school (and a former NASA engineer). I think being able to fix things yourself is an advantage. Young people might not see the world that way.
But to be frank, I might not be the best Prusa advocate. In the linked article I posted a remedy that involved baling wire, without once asking myself, "Baling wire, really? Won't young people find this hilarious and off-putting?"
There are a number of differences between young people and my generation. One of them is ... we built things.
> kinda irritating that every single thread about a Prusa printer has a dismissive post from someone who went from a janky Ender to a Bambu
A lot of HN users have bought a Bambu and feel a need to justify their choice after the fact in a way that gels with their outsized need to perform as experts in front of others. This leads to a lot of comments basically just repeating Bambu talking points without having evaluated any alternatives. "The printer for the masses" just becomes received wisdom.
If you know better, just let it wash over you and go do cool stuff.
I'm also sort of wondering if it's a bit of an American thing, where Americans tend to have this odd self-disparaging impulse to call Western-made products crap and point to Asian manufacturers as having figured it out. See e.g. Japanese cars. Perhaps Bambu is perceived as the Toyota of 3D printers or something.
The other thing to note is that they're in stock, folks have had to wait quite a long time to get their core-ones.
I'd love to support prusa or the others instead, but have hardware to ship and can't justify paying more for less reliable and more costly to run printers.
Prusa is great, but it's hard to justify an increased cost to my customers for "greatness".
Readit News
1. The Nextruder looks 5 years behind Bambulab nozzle switching, without to mention the cost of a new nozzle. A clogged nozzle is a non issue in a Bambulab printer, but it causes me a big cost and more work with my MK4 (which has the same extruder as the Core One).
2. How is it possible that these printers still lack at least a cheap webcam?
3. One of the strengths of Prusa should be support. It used to be very good, years ago. Now the issue the OP is reporting about the app that is not able to detect the principal component in the sound of the belt, is an example of a more extended problem, that one can see in many ways, especially in the MK4 / Core One documentation, that is especially lacking.
In general, here the OP is doing the work that Prusa should be doing to provide a better experience, without to mention all the design issues that they are not fixing directly before shipping their printers. I'm also a Bambulab user, and my A1 costed a fraction of my MK4 and it is the printer I always hit because of the zero-issues. It just works.
Now companies may have ups and downs, but there is some problem at Prusa: they are still not understanding what's really happening and where their problems are.
2. Reasoning i heard is that Prusa printers are used a lot by print farms that dont want them for security reasons and that there are aftermarket cams that are going to be a lot better than what they can deliver. Again cam on Bambu P1S is pretty bad so if you like the feature you end up changing it but because the chip in P1S is pretty low powered you end up adding whole different camera system.
3. This is very good point. I guess they were under pressure to release asap and the docs are rushed / in process. The upside is that they have track record of long support for the products.
I am not sure that they are so clueless.
I’ve had P1S for some time. It’s great. I wanted focus on 3D printing not on 3D printer.
But now? Bambu is update away from not being able to print outside their cloud. There is zero openness. They do everything to stop any kinf of reverse engineering or alternative firmwares. Afaik they might just decide tomorrow that they stop support some of the older models and they simply stop printing.
I still ended up messing, modding, tweaking and learning about the Bambu printer anyway.
But i also found a lot of use for 3D printer. So idea of buying 3x times more expensive printer kit that will take me 20h to assemble and then even more time to tweak to print as good as Bambu… is OK? Almost intruging? I will know that with care it will work for a looong time i will know how it works and it will be valuable knowledge.
It seems a lot like linux vs mac. At some point you bite the bullet and never look back. Or you do and go back.
Alibre CAD has affordable permanent/monthly licenses, I recommend that as the affordable commercial option.
You mentioned you stripped one of the tensioners - does a screw thread into a 3d printed part? Is there a more robust version of the part?
Sort of. A metal screw is threaded into a square nut that sits inside a 3D printed part. All good unless one gets to the end of the screw's motion range, after which the square nut begins to turn inside the plastic part and strips it.
I have printed spares for the plastic part, also I know better than to trust Prusa's frequency detector applet, so this is not a deal breaker once you understand the system. There are much better ways than Prusa's applet to detect the belt's frequency, some described in the linked article.
Prusa offers free downloads of all the printer's plastic parts: https://www.printables.com/model/1167816-core-one-printable-...
> Is there a more robust version of the part?
The original part is printed using PCCF, very strong, but the embedded square nut is too small to resist worst-case forces.
It looks like he posted this so may see my comment. I just want to say thanks, I appreciate the things you've put out into the world.
And thank you for your kind words.
Link to my free book "Confessions of a Long-Distance Sailor": https://arachnoid.com/lutusp/sailbook.html
I dont want the print to pause in some gcode function waiting for me to pick &place
Most modern printers also support simpler multi-material setups which change the filament in a single tool automatically. Waste is fairly high (because of the need to purge), and speed fairly low (because of the need to purge), but the technology is mature and cheap.
[1] https://www.prusa3d.com/en/product/original-prusa-xl-assembl...
Generally, it seems like if you just want to reliably print PLA, get a MK4S, but if you want the temp-controlled enclosure or filament versatility, get a Core One.
The Core One has a Core-XY motion system, meaning the print bed doesn't have to move very fast during printing. This greatly speeds up typical printing.
Also there's the issue of Prusa's open-design philosophy -- you're free to modify the printer's hardware and software.
I've never owned a Bambu Labs printer, so I might not be the best source for a point-by-point comparison.
Apparently there is a filter add-on that might help with printing something smelly?
https://www.prusa3d.com/product/advanced-filtration-for-prus...
I swapped my Ender5 for an X1C two years ago, and since then, I have only had to do whatever maintenance the X1C tells me. Using my X1C feels much closer to using my laser paper printer, whereas my Ender5 ended up being a hobby in itself.
Z-axis and XY-axis calibration: Designed to be unnecessary. Not possible with stock software. Possible with Orcaslicer on old or custom firmware, in which case the procedure would look similar.
Belt tensioning: Similar, but easier and better designed (no half-baked app involved).
Camera: Bambu also requires an account, I believe. Other than that, it's much better: it comes with the printer, is in color, has a light, runs at a useful framerate, and can take offline timelapses.
I don't think the comparison is positive for Prusa.
Fair comment, but Bambu Labs owners have similar issues on a much less open platform where they can't DIY themselves to a solution.
I'm a bit old-school (and a former NASA engineer). I think being able to fix things yourself is an advantage. Young people might not see the world that way.
But to be frank, I might not be the best Prusa advocate. In the linked article I posted a remedy that involved baling wire, without once asking myself, "Baling wire, really? Won't young people find this hilarious and off-putting?"
There are a number of differences between young people and my generation. One of them is ... we built things.
kinda irritating that every single thread about a Prusa printer has a dismissive post from someone who went from a janky Ender to a Bambu
A lot of HN users have bought a Bambu and feel a need to justify their choice after the fact in a way that gels with their outsized need to perform as experts in front of others. This leads to a lot of comments basically just repeating Bambu talking points without having evaluated any alternatives. "The printer for the masses" just becomes received wisdom.
If you know better, just let it wash over you and go do cool stuff.
I'm also sort of wondering if it's a bit of an American thing, where Americans tend to have this odd self-disparaging impulse to call Western-made products crap and point to Asian manufacturers as having figured it out. See e.g. Japanese cars. Perhaps Bambu is perceived as the Toyota of 3D printers or something.
The other thing to note is that they're in stock, folks have had to wait quite a long time to get their core-ones.
I'd love to support prusa or the others instead, but have hardware to ship and can't justify paying more for less reliable and more costly to run printers.
Prusa is great, but it's hard to justify an increased cost to my customers for "greatness".
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