Well their top directorial talent is retired (and even if it's another fake retirement like his last two, he's too old to do too much more) or dead. Miyazaki's films seem to be more popular and well known than Takahata's (personally Grave of the Fireflies and The Cat Returns are the only Takahata films I've seen), but both men were the heart of the studio. Goro Miyazaki has improved since his debut but is still nowhere as talented nor as visionary as his father.
Also The Boy and the Heron was quite a letdown for me for Miyazaki's final film. I understood the point he was trying to make, that the films he made were his attempt at creating a perfect world, but the malice in his own heart made him unable to accomplish his vision. But the rest of the film didn't really seem to be built around that message, it seemed like an afterthought for the final scenes where the great-uncle is trying to pass the mantle on to him.
In any case, Princess Mononoke is my favorite film of all time, and the closest that Miyazaki (and Studio Ghibli) ever got to perfection. If you haven't seen it you should absolutely check it out.
> personally Grave of the Fireflies and The Cat Returns are the only Takahata films I've seen
You owe it to yourself to watch the Tale of Princess Kaguya (かぐや姫の物語). It might be his best film, and quite possibly one of the best ever produced by Ghibli.
Takahata was robbed of the Oscar that year which went to...Big Hero. Ugh.
Between Kaguya and Grave of the Fireflies, Takahata had two of the best films ever made, in any category, and never got an Oscar.
As I've gotten older, I have grown to understand that while a lot of these films are popular for good reason (and are extremely good!) some of the best films, objectively to me, are some of the 'quietier' ones.
I'd say that Up On Poppy Hill is probably my partner and I's favorite Ghibli film. It's 'small' and 'quiet' in that the scope is a single town, and there's nothing super fantastical about it. Every time I watch it I see and hear something new. This is definitely Goro's best film as a director at Ghibli.
The film that hit me the hardest though is The Wind Rises. If you are a married man this is a film that will absolutely effect you emotionally. There are some films that are targeted as extremely specific audiences and this is one of those. I think everyone can enjoy it, but there's a handful of scenes that are so specific that I connected with so directly that I could feel every moment that Miyazaki was trying to convey at that exact time.
There's another film that is definitely more biased to adults, that is Only Yesterday. It's probably the slowest paced film that Ghibli has made, however it's one that's stuck with me so thoroughly. Especially the final few scenes, which only when they're over do you realize was something like 15-20 minutes with maybe a handful of dialogue lines. This is also another non-Miyazaki film that is extremely good.
How are there that many of us? It really is a spectacular film.
> equally good both in sub and dub.
The dub has decent voice acting, but is plagued with changing the meaning of several scenes. Kaya is Ashitaka's little sister, not betrothed. They inserted fart jokes. Moro's voice is significantly different [1]. Also, Neil Gaiman was involved in the localization. I've never been a fan of his.
There was also a really great anecdote about Miyazaki winning out over Harvey Weinstein [2]. "No Cuts!"
Back when I was a kid, I bought Miramax's old Princess Mononoke marketing site [3]. I still have it floating around, I think.
Cat return isn't directed by Takahata. Neither is the predecessor Whisper of the Heart, so I'm not sure which film you are thinking of, or if you've only ever watched one of his films.
I agree that The Boy and Heron wasn't a very good film. It honestly felt like an imitation.
I'm the same vein, though, wasn't Disney essentially Walt (and Roy) as well? Disney (the animation studio) went through a nadir between the death of Roy in 1971 before the start of the "Disney Renaissance" with The Little Mermaid in 1989 brought them back to form. I see no reason that Studio Ghibli couldn't eventually find outsized success after the death of Miyazaki.
It did die with Walt. They walked back a lot of his plans for the parks. They don’t make movies like they made in his era any longer. It is all CGI and live action lately. And after a certain point you have to wonder if there has been a significant loss of institutional knowledge on how to make a lot of those old hand made animations.
Yes, it was. But Disney was always much more dilluted and commercial anyway. And modern Disney is nothing like Walt's era Disney, it's similar to the post-Miyazaki Ghibli decline I predict - those few films from back in the 90s aside.
>I see no reason that Studio Ghibli couldn't eventually find outsized success after the death of Miyazaki.
There are notable Studio Ghibli films that were not made by Miyazaki such as Grave of the Fireflies, The Tale of the Princess Kaguya and When Marnie was There.
All of those were in my opinion excellent films and similar in style to ones made by Miyazaki, and I think fans of Miyazaki's work will also enjoy them.
Miyazaki is not unique. Shinkai for example is part of a younger generation that does not fall behind and he has even been called the new Miyazaki (although he dismisses it). Talent per se does not die with a single person, especially not in a field with so many enthusiastic followers. And Ghibli in particular already has access to a lot of talent in other domains beyond writing and directing.
Oh, I'm going to say something which will rustle even more feathers than this!
Don Bluth was far superior to Miyazaki. Also, Miyazaki was a poor father and his kids movies sucked (i.e. tales of the earth sea) because he was basically forced into following in his dads footsteps.
Shinkai is an one trick pony whose one and only plot is teenage longing and whose one and only visual language is coating everything in a shiny glittery glow so he can hide the emptiness of his movies under it. His works are nothing but one aesthetic remade and remastered over and over, but sadly plenty of people do not engage with works of art beyond their aesthetics and here we are. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Not talent (I wouldn't take the words ethos and artistry to describe talent). Miyazaki is known to be a control freak. For better or worse, as long as he's involved, it's his way or the highway.
I do wonder why Hosoda isn't in the same conversation. His themes are sometimes a bit less... decisive than Miyazaki's, but the animation quality and passion for exploring intimate, interpersonal stories is there.
Edit: The downvote is a lot less helpful than an explanation.
Ghibli is a production vehicle which was put in place to allow Takahata and Miyazaki to make and release their own movies.
The studio also coproduced an interesting movie of Dudok de Wit and produced an awesome one by Kondo, a correct one by Morita and some unequal ones by Goro Miyazaki.
It’s a midsized company employing plenty of producers, animators and other specialists. It could stop with Miyazaki retirement. It could keep going on making other movies which might or might not be as good as the Takahata and Miyazaki’s ones. Neither solution is inherently better.
But, no, Ghibli isn’t Miyazaki. The idea makes as much sense as talking about a Studio Ghibli style while Takahata made movies which were widely different from one another.
> The studio also coproduced an interesting movie of Dudok de Wit and produced an awesome one by Kondo, a correct one by Morita and some unequal ones by Goro Miyazaki.
Can you elaborate here? Is Kondo, Yoshifumo Kondo's Whisper of the Heart? Is Morita, Hiroyuki Morita's Cat return? I thought Cat return was a pretty bad movie by any account, but I'm also not sure what you mean by it being "a correct one".
Yes, indeed, both are Ghibli movies. Whisper of the Heart is by all accounts a very successful movie and a critic darling. The cat return while not a masterpiece is an overall ok movie - I think pretty bad is harsh.
Anyway the key point is that there is more to Ghibli that Miyazaki and even Takahata in the same way there is more to Miyazaki than Ghibli.
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Also The Boy and the Heron was quite a letdown for me for Miyazaki's final film. I understood the point he was trying to make, that the films he made were his attempt at creating a perfect world, but the malice in his own heart made him unable to accomplish his vision. But the rest of the film didn't really seem to be built around that message, it seemed like an afterthought for the final scenes where the great-uncle is trying to pass the mantle on to him.
In any case, Princess Mononoke is my favorite film of all time, and the closest that Miyazaki (and Studio Ghibli) ever got to perfection. If you haven't seen it you should absolutely check it out.
You owe it to yourself to watch the Tale of Princess Kaguya (かぐや姫の物語). It might be his best film, and quite possibly one of the best ever produced by Ghibli.
Takahata was robbed of the Oscar that year which went to...Big Hero. Ugh.
Between Kaguya and Grave of the Fireflies, Takahata had two of the best films ever made, in any category, and never got an Oscar.
For me, they are a contrarian indicator.
But yeah, there are not many directors like Miyazaki or Kubrick left.
Maybe I could count Céline Sciamma to the same company. I wish she would make a new movie soon.
Totoro is certainly a close second though.
2024.
She's been at it nearly 20 years. True creativity has limits.
I'd say that Up On Poppy Hill is probably my partner and I's favorite Ghibli film. It's 'small' and 'quiet' in that the scope is a single town, and there's nothing super fantastical about it. Every time I watch it I see and hear something new. This is definitely Goro's best film as a director at Ghibli.
The film that hit me the hardest though is The Wind Rises. If you are a married man this is a film that will absolutely effect you emotionally. There are some films that are targeted as extremely specific audiences and this is one of those. I think everyone can enjoy it, but there's a handful of scenes that are so specific that I connected with so directly that I could feel every moment that Miyazaki was trying to convey at that exact time.
There's another film that is definitely more biased to adults, that is Only Yesterday. It's probably the slowest paced film that Ghibli has made, however it's one that's stuck with me so thoroughly. Especially the final few scenes, which only when they're over do you realize was something like 15-20 minutes with maybe a handful of dialogue lines. This is also another non-Miyazaki film that is extremely good.
How are there that many of us? It really is a spectacular film.
> equally good both in sub and dub.
The dub has decent voice acting, but is plagued with changing the meaning of several scenes. Kaya is Ashitaka's little sister, not betrothed. They inserted fart jokes. Moro's voice is significantly different [1]. Also, Neil Gaiman was involved in the localization. I've never been a fan of his.
There was also a really great anecdote about Miyazaki winning out over Harvey Weinstein [2]. "No Cuts!"
Back when I was a kid, I bought Miramax's old Princess Mononoke marketing site [3]. I still have it floating around, I think.
[1] https://www.out.com/film/2022/8/24/meet-japanese-drag-queen-...
[2] https://www.youtube.com/shorts/f4BgE1kdTGQ
[3] http://www.princess-mononoke.com/ (not SSL, whoops!)
I agree that The Boy and Heron wasn't a very good film. It honestly felt like an imitation.
It goes with him. Maybe not as a business name, but as an ethos and artisty, yes.
>I see no reason that Studio Ghibli couldn't eventually find outsized success after the death of Miyazaki.
Oh, it's not success I fear they wont find.
All of those were in my opinion excellent films and similar in style to ones made by Miyazaki, and I think fans of Miyazaki's work will also enjoy them.
Don Bluth was far superior to Miyazaki. Also, Miyazaki was a poor father and his kids movies sucked (i.e. tales of the earth sea) because he was basically forced into following in his dads footsteps.
Sure, it’s conceivable for Ghibli to be successful again with a new talented director, but it won’t be Miyazaki’s nor Takahata’s Ghibli anymore.
Edit: The downvote is a lot less helpful than an explanation.
Ghibli is a production vehicle which was put in place to allow Takahata and Miyazaki to make and release their own movies.
The studio also coproduced an interesting movie of Dudok de Wit and produced an awesome one by Kondo, a correct one by Morita and some unequal ones by Goro Miyazaki.
It’s a midsized company employing plenty of producers, animators and other specialists. It could stop with Miyazaki retirement. It could keep going on making other movies which might or might not be as good as the Takahata and Miyazaki’s ones. Neither solution is inherently better.
But, no, Ghibli isn’t Miyazaki. The idea makes as much sense as talking about a Studio Ghibli style while Takahata made movies which were widely different from one another.
Can you elaborate here? Is Kondo, Yoshifumo Kondo's Whisper of the Heart? Is Morita, Hiroyuki Morita's Cat return? I thought Cat return was a pretty bad movie by any account, but I'm also not sure what you mean by it being "a correct one".
Anyway the key point is that there is more to Ghibli that Miyazaki and even Takahata in the same way there is more to Miyazaki than Ghibli.
And you know that will also be the end of Studio Ghibli. Whatever comes next under that name, will only be a shadow of what it once was.
We are all left to hope that Ghibli's studio keeps going even after Miyazaki stops.
https://archive.is/RcD0w
It goes with him.
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