I sold "ecstasy" for about a year in the early-90s, around UC Davis, Stockton, Modesto, down to Stanislaus State. It helped me pay for college.
I first heard about "ecstasy" at a rave in Sacramento. It wasn't called "ecstasy" then, it was just called "pills". My friend and I were trying to sell weed at the rave and no one wanted it; kids were making fun of us, telling us to go back to Woodstock. So we found a source of pills in San Francisco - a former cop that reminded me of Fred Schneider from The B-52s, and we went back to another rave in Sacramento. The two things I remember from the whole experience are:
1. People REALLY liked this stuff. I'd never seen people so happy to buy drugs. We usually sold out within a few minutes of showing up, just hanging out in the parking lot.
2. Unlike other popular drugs (weed and coke), it seemed almost impossible to get caught. I had one interaction with the police - a kid at Sac State got sick and needed medical attention; the cops eventually questioned him and he ratted on us. A cop later rolled up, questioned us, then asked if we would get him a date with one of our friends, some pretty girl we knew from the rave scene. He basically said he'd look the other way if she went on a date with him. The girl agreed and that was it. So yeah, I know things changed, but at the time, cops just weren't taking "pills" seriously. (BTW, the girl did go on a date with the cop; she said he was a tool. He showed up to the date with his gun holster under his jacket, and flashed his badge to the waitress when she asked about ID to buy booze from the bar. There was no second date.)
If you are interested in the topic, you can check the autobiography of the biggest manufacturer of LSD in history:
"The Rose Of Paracelsus" by William Leonard Pickard [1].
It is both poetic and fascinating. It's not an easy read but I recommend it.
There is the story in Dr. James Ketchum‘s memoir of a barrel containing 40lbs of LSD turning up in his offices. He worked on the Edgewood arsenal as part of the US military. This was enough LSD to make several hundred million people trip and worth nearly $1 billion at street value. Are you suggesting that Pickard manufactured more than that?
Not entirely on topic but a relevant warning. Extasy is used nowadays as a rape drug. Be careful. I have had extasy three times in my life, none of them consensual -- every single time it was slipped into my drink. I described the symptoms to my psychiatrist and she said that it was extasy for sure. I am a middle aged man and not incredibly attractive. God knows what is happening to young sexy people.
So if you are having a drink somewhere and you suddenly unexpectedly get this really happy, warm and cozy feeling, as if everything is alright with the world, there is love everywhere and you just have to hug and kiss somebody, anybody .... well do not hug or kiss anybody. You may have just been drugged.
There is a very troubling lore about MDMA, in that it apparently it is not such a bad drug, etc. I don't know about this ... I do know that a lot of MDMA deaths happened at the extasy fueled raves that were popular in the 90s and the early 2000s. They say those deaths were from other causes ... I do not know if this is true, but I have a feeling that this mantra of "MDMA is not that bad it is all about love, etc. " has been taken up by would-be-rapists to convince themselves that what they are doing is not that bad. That MDMA is not really a rape drug like Rohypnol, so there is nothing wrong in slipping one into a person's drink.
Well they are wrong. It is a serious crime and it is attempted rape if intent is established.
I confronted one of the guys that slipped me MDMA. It is not difficult to guess who did it, they usually make sure they are close to you when you are having those "I need to hug and kiss someone, anyone" feelings. He essentially admitted it without saying it outright and started laughing. Thought it was a cute thing, like something out of a romantic comedy.
I wish I had proof to send all those f*ckers to jail but of course when you are happy on MDMA you do not think to save the evidence for the police. But next time I will. I have thought about this enough that next time I will recognize the symptoms and do what needs to be done regardless of how happy I am feeling.
If anyone cares, none of these events resulted in sexual assault, I am a very careful person and I do not easily give in to strange feelings.
Giving someone any kind of drug, even alcohol, against their consent is god freaking awful.
> at the extasy fueled raves that were popular in the 90s and the early 2000s. They say those deaths were from other causes
If you are at an illegal rave, maybe some hot squatted warehouse with no AC, you dance all night with no break, do ALOT and don't drink any water there is a good chance you collapse.
Re: deaths, a lot of what is sold as "MDMA" is not MDMA at all, but MDA, meth, all sorts of wacky and poorly understood 2C-* analogs or, increasingly and incredibly dangerously, fentanyl.
Also, ecstasy is typically taken communally, in which case it's not a very effective rape drug since it decreases sex drive and causes temporary erectile dysfunction in many men.
The erectile dysfunction it causes has no correlation with decreased sex drive. Just about everyone I know who’s taken the substance has reported their sex drive is through the roof.
Wrong you disgusting pervert. You do not know me you have no right or ability to do psycho analysis to me.
Even if what you say is true and if ecstasy only “lowers your standards” then, by definition if someone makes you take it without knowing it is still an attempted rape. So you are defending rape, you disgusting pervert.
"At this point, he’d been using heroin every day for many years. " ...
"As the DEA puts it in a fact sheet it circulates for parents and educators, “It is ironic that a drug that is taken to increase pleasure may cause damage that reduces a person’s ability to feel pleasure.”
Maybe years of pill popping had done just that to Jenkins. "
MDMA is so fun. It's something I would love to do once a year or so for the rest of my life. Unfortunately it seems that people can't really grow up and do drugs responsibly. People either hard pivot away from drugs early on because they were abusing them, or they go down a path where drugs define them. The only way to keep getting good drugs that I know of is to keep in touch with friends on the latter path, but I don't really want to associate much with them.
Same with weed, it seems most people I know either quit smoking completely, or do nothing but smoke weed. I'm in my mid 30s.
Where the responsible casual adult drug users at???
We exist! I took MDMA for the first time in my late 30s.
What a fun, and joyful substance.
I took it as an adult: while partying, with my wife, at festivals.
Responsibly (test it first!). Not too much. Just a couple times a year.
I love it and has made my life better. But I'm glad I waited to "do drugs" until I was older and my brain and personality were a bit more settled.
My favorite thing about MDMA is that, while the experiences you have while on it are of course an "altered state of mind," those experiences are still your experiences.
I did, in fact, experience seeing my wife dancing freely and openly under scintillating lights and thinking: "wow."
I did in fact experience seeing two of my best friends talking with each other in a quiet corner of the festival and realizing "I love these people. They are special."
And because those experiences are real, they unlock a "register" which is now available even when stone cold sober.
A few weeks ago I was totally sober, in the middle of the day, when I saw two friends of mine (brothers) walking together having a discussion. And in my "MDMA" register I thought: "how special brotherhood is."
I'm certain not everyone who takes MDMA has experiences this good. I've been in spectacular settings and my age has afforded me the luxury of taking it with a good mindset.
> Responsibly (test it first!). Not too much. Just a couple times a year.
MDMA fans will argue this on the internet, but MDMA use (even without polydrug abuse) is associated with cognitive deficits in memory and learning. There’s a lot of experimental evidence showing it has damaging effects on neurons.
The damage done by a drug like this wouldn’t necessarily be obvious or even at the level to pass the threshold of significance in a scientific study after one or a couple doses. However, there isn’t much debate even among drug users that taking MDMA frequently produces some profoundly debilitating effects on long-term users.
I think everyone should be aware that it’s very likely that each MDMA dose is incurring some level of damage that is either long-term or potentially permanent. A couple sessions at moderate doses might not produce strictly significant effects but it’s amazing how quickly people go from “a couple times per year on special occasions” to having 20-30 exposures over a decade or two, which starts putting them beyond even the inclusion criteria for most light use studies that were performed.
EDIT: Also note that using DIY testing supplies on your pills is great practice and necessary in the age of fentanyl, but it’s not definitive. The only real way to test is to ship some of your pills off to one of the groups that tests for free and wait months for the results. Pills can contain multiple substances. There is a problem right now where one of the “research chemical” manufacturers has produced a large batch of a compound that is normally used for lesioning (damaging) serotonin neurons in lab studies. It has recreational effects, though, so it’s being sold as a drug. There’s concern that vendors will start mixing it into pressed pills to cut them with an active substance.
Fortunately in many states now you can just go to a local dispensary and buy weed. I usually get edibles because it's better than inhaling smoke. Now for me it sometimes replaces an evening beer, usually just 2.5mg or 5mg for a light buzz. You probably don't hear much from casual users because we're not talking about it because it doesn't define us, any more than a morning cup of coffee does.
Whether beer or weed, I'm usually having it after the kids are in bed and I'm just chilling before my bedtime.
As for other drugs, I don't bother simply because I'm not interested in getting involved in the illicit drug scene. I don't have time for that.
> Where the responsible casual adult drug users at???
The majority of alcohol drinkers fit this description: Occasional, casual use in very moderate doses.
However, as I’ve gotten older I’ve been surprised at how many people I know grew to fit your description: They either diverge toward consuming a lot less of a drug or abstaining completely, or they get trapped into an escalation where they do it too much, too often, or at too high of a dose.
Even the people who I considered the most discipline and responsible users grew up to have a period of problematic use that they didn’t see coming.
I have a friend who worked in the rehab field for a while. He said if you took a look at their patients without knowing the context you’d never guess their common problem was drugs. People from all walks of life get trapped in abuse patterns.
Some go from stable use to an abuse spiral when triggered by a stressful event: A divorce, breakup, or difficult quarter at work. Some spiral when they enter a new friend group that pushes it and makes access easy. Others spiral out of control when they hit depression or even a period of boredom.
At this point in my life I even know one person who spiraled deeply out of control on classic psychedelics, which many on the internet will claim is impossible or “something else must be going on” because it goes against typical drug use wisdom. Yet it happened and it’s a problem.
Side note: Much has been written about MDMA safety in recent years but the neuroscience people I know state in no uncertain terms that they will never touch that specific drug due to neurotoxicity.
This is a very naive, almost willfully ignorant, understanding of how addiction and drug abuse works.
It's more like a genetic lottery. If you didn't get the right set, there is no such thing as responsible use, only abstinence or destruction.
The challenge for society is how to grapple with this genetic inequity.
Zero tolerance would probably be best for everyone, at the expense of the entertainment of some. It would also be impossible to legally enforce and seems to result in abusive policing and organized crime.
Laissez-faire would fix the above problems, at the expense of those genetically predisposed to addiction, which is a significant percentage of society, and which has been shown to have horrible social side effects in terms of crime, mental health, child abuse, and mortality.
Sounds more like you've just bought into some over simplification of genetic effects on addictive behavior. It's definitely not all or nothing for everyone.
I am a responsible drug user. I think we’re not noticed much because if you are a reasonably well adjusted individual, you will be low key about it.
It’s called self reflection and not buying into the lifestyle.
Many drugs kind of suck and you have to be tactical in their use.
I do coke once perhaps every quarter. MDMA maybe once a year?
I avoid overdoing it because they both come with a terrible, unpleasant downer, especially if you do too much. I have access to great coke and great MDMA.
I smoke weed perhaps 10-15 times a year. I used to smoke it daily when I was suffering from severe depression. I credit cannabis with being alive.
I don’t want to end up with some weird ass world view, so I’ve avoided LSD and mushrooms. I did mescaline twice - highly recommend.
Alcohol and tobacco I’ve stopped. Terrible drugs overall.
So we do exist, us responsible drug users. I suspect the drug using population in general, due to the legality and taboo of their usage, will be of a less stable character compared to the general population. I suspect this plays a big part in your observation.
> I don’t want to end up with some weird ass world view, so I’ve avoided LSD and mushrooms.
I'd be with you if you said ayahuasca, or maybe iboga, but mushrooms are really pleasant and I don't know anyone that has come back weird from a strong mushroom trip. LSD is one of my favorites, but it's definitely life altering if given the right set and setting, and many people are looking for escape rather than deep internal work. I still think most people would benefit from it at least once in their lives, as long as the conditions are right for it.
But I agree with you overall, you can certainly take drugs here and there and be a perfectly well adjusted individual. I'd argue maybe even more so than the masses out there drinking alcohol every night!
It's probably consumer-oriented social programming that's responsible - the ideology of 'more is better' is pretty baked-in these days. The entire business model of the recreational drug industry - both legal and illegal - is built around the heavy user, regardless of whether the substance is alcohol or amphetamine.
The amusing thing from the chemist's point of view is that the legal substances sold cheaply over-the-counter - ibuprofen, aspirin, etc. - or even the prescription antibiotics, which are not much more expensive - are not easier or harder to synthesize than the illegal drugs, from LSD to MDMA. Incidentally, a large proportion of what's clandestinely sold as MDMA is just some amphetamine derivative like Adderall, possibly blended with small amounts of fentanyl to create the 'happy glow' effect.
Literally the only reason there's a lot of money in the illegal drug business is that the drugs are illegal. This in turn generates associated profits in the private prison industry, as illegal industries are unregulated and typically use violence to enforce contractual agreements, instead of the courts.
Just legalize and educate - excessive drug and alcohol use destroys your mind and your body in exchange for fleeting pleasures, it's never a good idea.
They are all over the place, but they don't go around advertising that fact specifically because so many people hold opinions like that where you are either an addict and screw-up or completely abstain. Also people with any sort of professional job are going to be extra careful about exposing their drug usage because it can ruin their whole career. Even flimsy accusations can be quite damaging in many professions.
How would you know if your coworker, neighbor, or anyone else was a responsible drug user unless they told you? We’re harder to spot, but I know plenty.
> The only way to keep getting good drugs that I know of is to keep in touch with friends on the latter path, but I don't really want to associate much with them.
It’s a lot easier to get drugs without connections than it used to be. A couple hundred bucks of Monero, the tor browser, and a DanceSafe testing kit with fentanyl strips is all you need.
> Where the responsible casual adult drug users at???
Quietly getting high and not broadcasting their drug use. There are a lot more than you think. I was recently surprised to find out that one of my childhood friend’s parents, who I had considered to be the most straight laced and/or puritanical family in the community, regularly drink magic mushroom tea that the church sound guy buys for them off the dark web. Once you include prescription medication, the number of people high on something on any given day approaches 100%. People be trippin balls, yo.
> Once you include prescription medication, the number of people high on something on any given day approaches 100%
100% of people are not on prescription drugs. Most prescription drugs do not have euphoric or “high” producing effects.
Even among drugs with recreational effects, people who take them as directed at therapeutic doses will not be “high” when using them regularly. The person who has taken the same dose of Adderall daily for ADHD for a decade isn’t buzzing and getting things done like someone taking their first 10 doses they borrowed from a friend. The chronic pain patient on a stable dose of a opioid is certainly not feeling a buzz, just temporary relief from their pain. The recreational effects are short lived.
We need to stop this false equivalence between people taking medication and people being “high”.
I agree. It was my favorite. Used to do it a lot in my 20s. I'm in my late 40s now. Haven't done it in years but I would love to do it once a year and just dance my ass off at an event or festival.
I personally don't like weed. I am not a fan of smoking/vaping anything (the act of smoking itself) and I've tried edibles/gummies of varying mg and types and just never found a high I enjoyed on it.
I enjoyed LSD when I was young but would probably find it too much now. Mushrooms are great though, but also haven't done that in years. Would also do that once or twice a year.
Some drug info teams at festivals told me I'm the most responsible drug user there is when I told them that I take MDMA at most once per year but preferably less.
Also the test lab I come into were excited to see me when I came in to test DMT.
But I prefer to do it in private with a close friend, or two. I've done it twice at festivals (MDMA). In both cases, while it was fun, it was also quite chaotic at times.
In the USA and many other places, one is not allowed to do what one likes with one's own mind. (For those who haven't gotten the memo.) Whether that's right or wrong, potential legal consequences alter the in vacuo definition/calculus of "responsible use".
If one decides that legal consequences are no matter, and if one disregards the consequences of any effects on others, then another option is to find or grow one's own. Indeed, in some but not all jurisdictions, magic-mushroom spores (for microscopy purposes only, of course) are perfectly legal to possess and even mail. For non-plants and non-fungi, the analog, I suppose, would be to thoroughly master practical chemistry and synthesize whatever one wants for oneself in a home laboratory.
None of this is legal advice, of course. Don't break the law. And carefully examine and consider past, present, and future life choices.
P.S.: I see many other comments mentioning that weed or other drugs are "legal" in certain states. Don't be duped: many of the substances they refer to are still illegal federally. Federal law is distinct from state law. The federal government's policy (if any) of not enforcing certain laws does not mean it can't or it won't. Again, none of this is legal advice.
Come to Denver, while there are plenty of folks that fall into both of the categories you lament, there are plenty of occasional adult users too. I suspect its a combination of both the legal status of both weed and natural medicines as well as the music scene. I have many friends who enjoy the occasional trip and you would never know from a casual conversation.
MDMA is not safe at all for rec use. It’s known to lesion the serotonergic system, even with a single dose. HED is always hard but if you compare the rat dosage they used with a typical 6-7x adjustment I think it comes in at not 150mg ish for a 175lb adult. Not that high relative to common dosing, especially if you’re a 98lb rave chick not a 175lb male.
Now factor in how hard it is to actually dose and the possible inclusion of other amphetamine analogs. Eg I’ve heard of para-chloro(meth)amphetamine showing up a few times, which is used intentionally as a neurotoxin to permanently destroy neurons.
And of course you have dysregulation of the brain’s temperature, magnified by the hot and high-cardio environments where MDMA is usually taken, which can be additionally neurotoxic.
If you synthesize your own or know someone who can, your risk is lower, but MDMA is simply not a safe thing to take.
I wonder if this is the difference between functional user, who is clearly overdoing it, but is on the 'latter path' and 'casual adult drug user' that checks in once a year for novelty value. I personally do not have big enough social circle to draw any real conclusions here.
I think one of the causes of addiction is dopamine dysregulation where the normal feels bad and drugs help fix that, at least temporarily. I wonder if instead of using strong drugs such people would be better off skipping the addiction part and go direct to a rehab where they use a weaker drug like modafinil. I think the dopamine dysregulation caused by strong drugs is already likely pre-existing in those who are seeking the drugs in an effort to fill the hole. Those same people are more likely to become addicted and have more difficulty quitting.
I take Modafinil at half the normal dose of 100mg and have been on that same dose steadily for years with little sign of building a tolerance or an addiction.
Modafinil aka provigil? As opposed to taking an amphetamine? I can never find modafinil, I've wanted it forever because I like staying up 48 hours a few times a year. Coffee only gets me to 32 hours, miserably.
I find that stuff like methadone is really quite strong, and I don't see how it isn't addictive. I figure it's to keep addicts alive while they get treatment instead of them getting a hot shot somewhere and ending up in a grave.
One thing that the upwards explosion in ticket prices has done is practically ensured only responsible people can go!
I love what the people I meet are into in professionally, as its pretty top tier professions and investing, and I have pretty much have nothing in common with the people that resent and lament the costs. (Payment plans are somewhat resetting that but the prices are continuing to increase, and there’s just a couple a wooks to spice things up)
Having a drug experience regiment by day is pretty common
I’m in the quit drugs completely camp but I have to say that it wasn’t because of drug abuse or addiction. Leading up to the birth of my daughter I just decided it didn’t fit in with a family lifestyle.
I know people who have "taken 20 years off" from their favorite recreational chemicals, explicitly to raise children and get them packed off to college. :)
I would be the once a year occasional user in my 30s but I have no idea where to get it anymore after moving to a city in my 20s. I have no interest in going to nightclubs and chatting kids a decade younger than me to get ripped off. And same for cannabis, I completely stopped smoking but it's not because I can't find any - it's legal here - I just don't care. It's not fun anymore.
>Where the responsible casual adult drug users at???
They are around you all the time, but they don't advertise because it isn't a personality defining hobby for them.
Regarding weed, I feel like it is still more common than not. Working professional that will have a gummy or toke in a social setting or after putting the kids down.
Decriminalized? As I noted in my other comment, it's still illegal federally, and the state and federal governments are separate sovereigns that can and do independently create and enforce laws (subject to various federal constitutional limitations).
Weed doesn't hit for me, but it's so easy to buy good mushrooms near me. It's like a nice weekend vacation to just walk around my neighborhood (or better, go to a cottage and trip in nature).
Finally, someone on HN I can relate to. My wife and I love luxury dining experiences, so we eat at McDonalds 364 nights a year and go to the highest rated Michelin 3-star restaurant on the 365th night.
The responsible drug user is a myth created to sell more drugs. Most illegal drugs are both addictive and tolerance causing. It is certainly true of MDMA. That means you will not get the same effect, from the same amount next time. You will have to increase your dosage to get the same or similar experience.
So you either stop using the drug (if you are lucky) or go on a downward spiral of higher doses, more negative side effects and life deterioration.
Readit News
I first heard about "ecstasy" at a rave in Sacramento. It wasn't called "ecstasy" then, it was just called "pills". My friend and I were trying to sell weed at the rave and no one wanted it; kids were making fun of us, telling us to go back to Woodstock. So we found a source of pills in San Francisco - a former cop that reminded me of Fred Schneider from The B-52s, and we went back to another rave in Sacramento. The two things I remember from the whole experience are:
1. People REALLY liked this stuff. I'd never seen people so happy to buy drugs. We usually sold out within a few minutes of showing up, just hanging out in the parking lot.
2. Unlike other popular drugs (weed and coke), it seemed almost impossible to get caught. I had one interaction with the police - a kid at Sac State got sick and needed medical attention; the cops eventually questioned him and he ratted on us. A cop later rolled up, questioned us, then asked if we would get him a date with one of our friends, some pretty girl we knew from the rave scene. He basically said he'd look the other way if she went on a date with him. The girl agreed and that was it. So yeah, I know things changed, but at the time, cops just weren't taking "pills" seriously. (BTW, the girl did go on a date with the cop; she said he was a tool. He showed up to the date with his gun holster under his jacket, and flashed his badge to the waitress when she asked about ID to buy booze from the bar. There was no second date.)
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It is both poetic and fascinating. It's not an easy read but I recommend it.
[1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/28930020-the-rose-of-par...
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So if you are having a drink somewhere and you suddenly unexpectedly get this really happy, warm and cozy feeling, as if everything is alright with the world, there is love everywhere and you just have to hug and kiss somebody, anybody .... well do not hug or kiss anybody. You may have just been drugged.
There is a very troubling lore about MDMA, in that it apparently it is not such a bad drug, etc. I don't know about this ... I do know that a lot of MDMA deaths happened at the extasy fueled raves that were popular in the 90s and the early 2000s. They say those deaths were from other causes ... I do not know if this is true, but I have a feeling that this mantra of "MDMA is not that bad it is all about love, etc. " has been taken up by would-be-rapists to convince themselves that what they are doing is not that bad. That MDMA is not really a rape drug like Rohypnol, so there is nothing wrong in slipping one into a person's drink.
Well they are wrong. It is a serious crime and it is attempted rape if intent is established.
I confronted one of the guys that slipped me MDMA. It is not difficult to guess who did it, they usually make sure they are close to you when you are having those "I need to hug and kiss someone, anyone" feelings. He essentially admitted it without saying it outright and started laughing. Thought it was a cute thing, like something out of a romantic comedy.
I wish I had proof to send all those f*ckers to jail but of course when you are happy on MDMA you do not think to save the evidence for the police. But next time I will. I have thought about this enough that next time I will recognize the symptoms and do what needs to be done regardless of how happy I am feeling.
If anyone cares, none of these events resulted in sexual assault, I am a very careful person and I do not easily give in to strange feelings.
> at the extasy fueled raves that were popular in the 90s and the early 2000s. They say those deaths were from other causes
If you are at an illegal rave, maybe some hot squatted warehouse with no AC, you dance all night with no break, do ALOT and don't drink any water there is a good chance you collapse.
Don't do that.
Also, ecstasy is typically taken communally, in which case it's not a very effective rape drug since it decreases sex drive and causes temporary erectile dysfunction in many men.
XTC doesn't make you want to kiss anybody, you might lower your standards, but won't make you attracted to men if you aren't already before taking it.
What makes you think that?
Even if what you say is true and if ecstasy only “lowers your standards” then, by definition if someone makes you take it without knowing it is still an attempted rape. So you are defending rape, you disgusting pervert.
Maybe years of pill popping had done just that to Jenkins. "
... eyes rolling
Same with weed, it seems most people I know either quit smoking completely, or do nothing but smoke weed. I'm in my mid 30s.
Where the responsible casual adult drug users at???
What a fun, and joyful substance.
I took it as an adult: while partying, with my wife, at festivals.
Responsibly (test it first!). Not too much. Just a couple times a year.
I love it and has made my life better. But I'm glad I waited to "do drugs" until I was older and my brain and personality were a bit more settled.
My favorite thing about MDMA is that, while the experiences you have while on it are of course an "altered state of mind," those experiences are still your experiences.
I did, in fact, experience seeing my wife dancing freely and openly under scintillating lights and thinking: "wow."
I did in fact experience seeing two of my best friends talking with each other in a quiet corner of the festival and realizing "I love these people. They are special."
And because those experiences are real, they unlock a "register" which is now available even when stone cold sober.
A few weeks ago I was totally sober, in the middle of the day, when I saw two friends of mine (brothers) walking together having a discussion. And in my "MDMA" register I thought: "how special brotherhood is."
I'm certain not everyone who takes MDMA has experiences this good. I've been in spectacular settings and my age has afforded me the luxury of taking it with a good mindset.
But it's pretty fucking cool.
MDMA fans will argue this on the internet, but MDMA use (even without polydrug abuse) is associated with cognitive deficits in memory and learning. There’s a lot of experimental evidence showing it has damaging effects on neurons.
The damage done by a drug like this wouldn’t necessarily be obvious or even at the level to pass the threshold of significance in a scientific study after one or a couple doses. However, there isn’t much debate even among drug users that taking MDMA frequently produces some profoundly debilitating effects on long-term users.
I think everyone should be aware that it’s very likely that each MDMA dose is incurring some level of damage that is either long-term or potentially permanent. A couple sessions at moderate doses might not produce strictly significant effects but it’s amazing how quickly people go from “a couple times per year on special occasions” to having 20-30 exposures over a decade or two, which starts putting them beyond even the inclusion criteria for most light use studies that were performed.
EDIT: Also note that using DIY testing supplies on your pills is great practice and necessary in the age of fentanyl, but it’s not definitive. The only real way to test is to ship some of your pills off to one of the groups that tests for free and wait months for the results. Pills can contain multiple substances. There is a problem right now where one of the “research chemical” manufacturers has produced a large batch of a compound that is normally used for lesioning (damaging) serotonin neurons in lab studies. It has recreational effects, though, so it’s being sold as a drug. There’s concern that vendors will start mixing it into pressed pills to cut them with an active substance.
That's not cool, man. How would you feel if someone looked at your wife that way?
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Whether beer or weed, I'm usually having it after the kids are in bed and I'm just chilling before my bedtime.
As for other drugs, I don't bother simply because I'm not interested in getting involved in the illicit drug scene. I don't have time for that.
The majority of alcohol drinkers fit this description: Occasional, casual use in very moderate doses.
However, as I’ve gotten older I’ve been surprised at how many people I know grew to fit your description: They either diverge toward consuming a lot less of a drug or abstaining completely, or they get trapped into an escalation where they do it too much, too often, or at too high of a dose.
Even the people who I considered the most discipline and responsible users grew up to have a period of problematic use that they didn’t see coming.
I have a friend who worked in the rehab field for a while. He said if you took a look at their patients without knowing the context you’d never guess their common problem was drugs. People from all walks of life get trapped in abuse patterns.
Some go from stable use to an abuse spiral when triggered by a stressful event: A divorce, breakup, or difficult quarter at work. Some spiral when they enter a new friend group that pushes it and makes access easy. Others spiral out of control when they hit depression or even a period of boredom.
At this point in my life I even know one person who spiraled deeply out of control on classic psychedelics, which many on the internet will claim is impossible or “something else must be going on” because it goes against typical drug use wisdom. Yet it happened and it’s a problem.
Side note: Much has been written about MDMA safety in recent years but the neuroscience people I know state in no uncertain terms that they will never touch that specific drug due to neurotoxicity.
It's more like a genetic lottery. If you didn't get the right set, there is no such thing as responsible use, only abstinence or destruction.
The challenge for society is how to grapple with this genetic inequity.
Zero tolerance would probably be best for everyone, at the expense of the entertainment of some. It would also be impossible to legally enforce and seems to result in abusive policing and organized crime.
Laissez-faire would fix the above problems, at the expense of those genetically predisposed to addiction, which is a significant percentage of society, and which has been shown to have horrible social side effects in terms of crime, mental health, child abuse, and mortality.
It's a hard problem.
The only thing I'm mildly addicted to is coffee and I roll once every 2 years on mollie.
A few differences:
1. I've been pushed hard to do education. I did and became way more science-minded than anyone in my family.
2. I've seen the effects of drug abuse on my parents/grand parents. I was anti-drugs until 21.
3. I opened up experimenting when I was 27. All my parents/grand parents got hooked between the ages of 13 and 16.
It’s called self reflection and not buying into the lifestyle.
Many drugs kind of suck and you have to be tactical in their use.
I do coke once perhaps every quarter. MDMA maybe once a year? I avoid overdoing it because they both come with a terrible, unpleasant downer, especially if you do too much. I have access to great coke and great MDMA.
I smoke weed perhaps 10-15 times a year. I used to smoke it daily when I was suffering from severe depression. I credit cannabis with being alive.
I don’t want to end up with some weird ass world view, so I’ve avoided LSD and mushrooms. I did mescaline twice - highly recommend.
Alcohol and tobacco I’ve stopped. Terrible drugs overall.
So we do exist, us responsible drug users. I suspect the drug using population in general, due to the legality and taboo of their usage, will be of a less stable character compared to the general population. I suspect this plays a big part in your observation.
I'd be with you if you said ayahuasca, or maybe iboga, but mushrooms are really pleasant and I don't know anyone that has come back weird from a strong mushroom trip. LSD is one of my favorites, but it's definitely life altering if given the right set and setting, and many people are looking for escape rather than deep internal work. I still think most people would benefit from it at least once in their lives, as long as the conditions are right for it.
But I agree with you overall, you can certainly take drugs here and there and be a perfectly well adjusted individual. I'd argue maybe even more so than the masses out there drinking alcohol every night!
The amusing thing from the chemist's point of view is that the legal substances sold cheaply over-the-counter - ibuprofen, aspirin, etc. - or even the prescription antibiotics, which are not much more expensive - are not easier or harder to synthesize than the illegal drugs, from LSD to MDMA. Incidentally, a large proportion of what's clandestinely sold as MDMA is just some amphetamine derivative like Adderall, possibly blended with small amounts of fentanyl to create the 'happy glow' effect.
Literally the only reason there's a lot of money in the illegal drug business is that the drugs are illegal. This in turn generates associated profits in the private prison industry, as illegal industries are unregulated and typically use violence to enforce contractual agreements, instead of the courts.
Just legalize and educate - excessive drug and alcohol use destroys your mind and your body in exchange for fleeting pleasures, it's never a good idea.
I have no interest right now dealing with the next day effects of drugs lol
A long stretch of sleep is my mdma right now
It’s a lot easier to get drugs without connections than it used to be. A couple hundred bucks of Monero, the tor browser, and a DanceSafe testing kit with fentanyl strips is all you need.
> Where the responsible casual adult drug users at???
Quietly getting high and not broadcasting their drug use. There are a lot more than you think. I was recently surprised to find out that one of my childhood friend’s parents, who I had considered to be the most straight laced and/or puritanical family in the community, regularly drink magic mushroom tea that the church sound guy buys for them off the dark web. Once you include prescription medication, the number of people high on something on any given day approaches 100%. People be trippin balls, yo.
100% of people are not on prescription drugs. Most prescription drugs do not have euphoric or “high” producing effects.
Even among drugs with recreational effects, people who take them as directed at therapeutic doses will not be “high” when using them regularly. The person who has taken the same dose of Adderall daily for ADHD for a decade isn’t buzzing and getting things done like someone taking their first 10 doses they borrowed from a friend. The chronic pain patient on a stable dose of a opioid is certainly not feeling a buzz, just temporary relief from their pain. The recreational effects are short lived.
We need to stop this false equivalence between people taking medication and people being “high”.
I personally don't like weed. I am not a fan of smoking/vaping anything (the act of smoking itself) and I've tried edibles/gummies of varying mg and types and just never found a high I enjoyed on it.
I enjoyed LSD when I was young but would probably find it too much now. Mushrooms are great though, but also haven't done that in years. Would also do that once or twice a year.
Also the test lab I come into were excited to see me when I came in to test DMT.
But I prefer to do it in private with a close friend, or two. I've done it twice at festivals (MDMA). In both cases, while it was fun, it was also quite chaotic at times.
Countries where you can test your substances [1].
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_checking
If one decides that legal consequences are no matter, and if one disregards the consequences of any effects on others, then another option is to find or grow one's own. Indeed, in some but not all jurisdictions, magic-mushroom spores (for microscopy purposes only, of course) are perfectly legal to possess and even mail. For non-plants and non-fungi, the analog, I suppose, would be to thoroughly master practical chemistry and synthesize whatever one wants for oneself in a home laboratory.
None of this is legal advice, of course. Don't break the law. And carefully examine and consider past, present, and future life choices.
P.S.: I see many other comments mentioning that weed or other drugs are "legal" in certain states. Don't be duped: many of the substances they refer to are still illegal federally. Federal law is distinct from state law. The federal government's policy (if any) of not enforcing certain laws does not mean it can't or it won't. Again, none of this is legal advice.
Find your tribe. It does exist.
I am impressed. I know a few people like me but 150 is a lot.
I’m really curious to know how one goes about this.
Now factor in how hard it is to actually dose and the possible inclusion of other amphetamine analogs. Eg I’ve heard of para-chloro(meth)amphetamine showing up a few times, which is used intentionally as a neurotoxin to permanently destroy neurons.
And of course you have dysregulation of the brain’s temperature, magnified by the hot and high-cardio environments where MDMA is usually taken, which can be additionally neurotoxic.
If you synthesize your own or know someone who can, your risk is lower, but MDMA is simply not a safe thing to take.
They also do other unsafe things like drive cars and cross roads (anywhere in most countries where jay walking isn't a thing).
I take Modafinil at half the normal dose of 100mg and have been on that same dose steadily for years with little sign of building a tolerance or an addiction.
I find that stuff like methadone is really quite strong, and I don't see how it isn't addictive. I figure it's to keep addicts alive while they get treatment instead of them getting a hot shot somewhere and ending up in a grave.
One thing that the upwards explosion in ticket prices has done is practically ensured only responsible people can go!
I love what the people I meet are into in professionally, as its pretty top tier professions and investing, and I have pretty much have nothing in common with the people that resent and lament the costs. (Payment plans are somewhat resetting that but the prices are continuing to increase, and there’s just a couple a wooks to spice things up)
Having a drug experience regiment by day is pretty common
They are around you all the time, but they don't advertise because it isn't a personality defining hobby for them.
Regarding weed, I feel like it is still more common than not. Working professional that will have a gummy or toke in a social setting or after putting the kids down.
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So you either stop using the drug (if you are lucky) or go on a downward spiral of higher doses, more negative side effects and life deterioration.
No it's not. I think my doses have even gone down over the years.
Or are you talking about using it monthly / weekly?
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