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Posted by u/flowinho 6 months ago
Ask HN: With trust in Firefox gone, is Chrome-ish the only option?
As a privacy conscious user that loves open source software, I'm really puzzled regarding browsers right now. It's confusing.

It feels like basically everything is Chrome nowadays.

Are there any alternatives to Chrome-based browsers?

Best wishes and have a wonderful week

worble · 6 months ago
The rhetoric around Firefox is so exhausting. They change some wording while having made no actual technical changes to the browser and the internet is on fire for days calling them the devil incarnate, meanwhile Chrome gutted uBlock and other extensions a week ago and there was barely any noise about it.

What causes this phenomenon where the project with significantly less resources is held to a higher standard than the other players?

mkl · 6 months ago
From long experience we expect Google and hence Chrome to act against our interests. We have not expected that of Mozilla and Firefox.

Google did give us a lot of warning that they would greatly restrict ad-blocking and tracker-blocking, so most of that angst has already been and gone.

InDubioProRubio · 6 months ago
But firefox always was a monopoly figleave sockpuppet - and now they do not need it anymore, so firefox either finds a new purpose (doing what it promised) or it tries to sell out in one final scam.
KevinMS · 6 months ago
> From long experience we expect Google and hence Chrome to act against our interests. We have not expected that of Mozilla and Firefox.

HN used to gush over how great Chrome was. Some of us were saying, um guys, you know google is in the business of selling advertising right? Nobody seemed to care. Now mozilla's lawyers have them change some legalese and they are instantly the bad guys.

magicalhippo · 6 months ago
> meanwhile Chrome gutted uBlock and other extensions a week ago and there was barely any noise about it

Because anyone who cared knew this was coming in the near future after they published manifest v3 several years ago. Back then there was a huge kerfuffle, but since then anyone who cared has moved on.

lukan · 6 months ago
Well, no one (sane) has any illusions left about chrome.

But FF was supposed to remain the shiny counterexample (despite acting also shady since years).

sebazzz · 6 months ago
It is still the least worse option. These posts like OP is just throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
cassianoleal · 6 months ago
OP's premise is that "Firefox is gone" and "Chrome is the only option". That suggests Chrome is better than current Firefox.

Personally, even though my trust in Firefox (and especially Mozilla) has been eroding rapidly in recent years, it's still so much greater than what I have for Google and Chrome that it's not even a choice.

Therefore, I agree with GP that this rhetoric is exhausting.

Bringing up the issues with FF and Mozilla is important and deserves attention. This kind of misleading FUD is not and does not.

refulgentis · 6 months ago
> What causes this phenomenon where the project with significantly less resources is held to a higher standard than the other players?

Hm, my lived experience is the inverse, and both seem sort of important to talk about.

We've been hearing about Chrome implementing the same privacy protections as Safari as a transgression for years, years, and years, as it was delayed again and again.

It was ex-Mozilla people who brought to my attention that they were deeply alarmed by the privacy-concious-Do-Not-Track people making this pivot and that it was a really bad sign.

Generally, I try to avoid loaded questions phrased like "why is X considered as A while Y is considered as B?" because it suffers from high failure rates

(likelihood you're the first person to realize the truth; likelihood these things ended up sorted neatly into opposing binaries; undecidability of 'how come everyone believes the wrong thing?'; uncomfortable conversation when someone starts from 'how come everyone believes the wrong thing?' and you have to sort of lead them gently to 'is it possible you are missing something, not everyone else?' without making it obvious)

scarface_74 · 6 months ago
> We've been hearing about Chrome implementing the same privacy protections as Safari as a transgression for years, years, and years, as it was delayed again and again.

Well Apple didn’t turn around and try to push the Topics API..

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Topics_API

(Just to be clear. Mozilla is opposed to it too. They are just documenting it and don’t plan to implement the API)

Dead Comment

beehivebasic · 6 months ago
When Firefox removed Do Not Track in December last year [0] people also freaked out, which came as a considerable surprise to me; I thought most tech-savvy users were well aware of the flaws with DNT, and were well aware of DNT's newfangled replacement (GPC) that Firefox had already adopted [1].

I will never understand why people attack Firefox so eagerly at every given opportunity.

[0]: https://circuitbulletin.com/what-is-global-privacy-control-t... [1]: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/global-privacy-control

TiredOfLife · 6 months ago
>there was barely any noise about it.

10 posts daily about it on HN.

firefax · 6 months ago
>The rhetoric around Firefox is so exhausting. They change some wording while having made no actual technical changes to the browser and the internet is on fire for days calling them the devil incarnate

Having worked there, it's concerning, since if you saw the discussions that go on with regard to user data, you'd know they are trying to make sure they word things correctly, not... insert weasel words to grab your data.

Deleted Comment

yjftsjthsd-h · 6 months ago
> meanwhile Chrome gutted uBlock and other extensions a week ago and there was barely any noise about it.

At this writing, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43322922 has 962 points and 485 comments, and is the latest in a long line of posts. What are you on about?

> What causes this phenomenon where the project with significantly less resources is held to a higher standard than the other players?

There is the thing where Mozilla explicitly claimed to uphold a higher standard.

TiredOfLife · 6 months ago
>What causes this phenomenon where the project with significantly less resources is held to a higher standard than the other players?

It's not the resources. It's their holier than thou attitude.

Dead Comment

hnlmorg · 6 months ago
It’s a bit premature to say Mozilla’s change to user agreements should result in a loss of our trust.

Particularly given the browser itself is open source and already has many eyes on it.

I’m going to wait and see what Mozilla’s next few releases are like before passing judgement.

bad_user · 6 months ago
One thing that bothers me is that, when smaller projects and companies get boycotted, the winners seem to always be US Big Tech companies that are far worse, and boycotts don't work against them either.

For what is worth, I still use Firefox.

If you fear Mozilla's telemetry going forward, you could pick a fork that disables it. E.g., Mullvad or Zen seem pretty good.

But on the other hand, if you really want to get off the Firefox bandwagon, yes, Chromium-based browsers are a viable alternative. Although, in my view, there are only 2 Chromium-based browsers that are fairly trustworthy (i.e., well updated, not insecure) and that are not full-on spyware: Vivaldi and Brave.

Regardless, the “forks” are good only for disabling features that you don't want. But keep in mind that the hard work is still done by Mozilla, Google or Apple, it costs a shit ton of money to maintain a browser engine and all of them are financed by ad-tech (Google's ad-tech to be more specific).

bambax · 6 months ago
You can trust or distrust whoever you want, but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Firefox. They now have updated the wording of their TOS that caused so much uproar and confusion (in part fueled by Brendan Eich, who runs a competing browser) and are pretty clear about what they do.

Firefox also still supports Manifest V2, which lets you use the full, ultra-powerful version of uBlock Origin. There's no better privacy protection than uBlock.

Firefox is a much better choice than any Chromium based browser for the privacy conscious.

bad_user · 6 months ago
> in part fueled by Brendan Eich

I don't get why you needed to mention this, when the story became viral before Brendan Eich communicated it.

Do you feel that people misunderstood that, in fact, Mozilla does intend to sell user data?

Note that I'm still using and advocating for Firefox, I just found this offtopic attack odd.

bambax · 6 months ago
I thought his attack on Firefox was a little unbecoming, while also forgetting to mention that he's a competitor (and his product is not free).

Mozilla is apparently run by corporate drones who made a blunder (as drones do). It happens. They corrected it. No need to attack or dismiss Firefox in general. Firefox is excellent.

torstenvl · 5 months ago
No, they didn't update anything meaningful.
promoterr · 6 months ago
Chrome was NEVER (and won't be ever) the option.. https://contrachrome.com/
foxhill · 6 months ago
you can't be serious, surely?

yes, mozilla's TOS update is a bad thing, but switching to chrome (or chromium-based) for it is really cutting your nose to spite your face.

timeon · 6 months ago
> you can't be serious, surely?

Probably rage-bait.

botanical · 6 months ago
It's funny how Mozilla is being vilified non-stop this past week when nothing's really changed (only their legal wording). Whereas Google are literally personal information vampires; they make the web a worse place for people and their freedoms.

I will continue supporting Mozilla and using Firefox.

mkl · 6 months ago
You may have missed Mozilla's update: https://blog.mozilla.org/en/products/firefox/update-on-terms..., discussed in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43213612

I don't think trust in Firefox should be gone.

torstenvl · 5 months ago
There is nothing meaningful in this "update."

If anything, it's worse, in that they EXPLICITLY admit that they are getting kickbacks—“'monetary' or 'other valuable consideration'”—for providing your user information.