Serious question: why Rust? Sounds like this is not exactly systems level programming or any user would suffer from or even notice garbage collection latency.
Is Rust building up a decent ecosystem now for application programming? When I tried developing in Rust I came to the conclusion that you pay a heavy price for not having a garbage collector. Was I doing it wrong?
I find Rust super ergonomic for any kind of app. The memory management aspect is trivial and second nature to anyone used to unmanaged languages, and the type system equally is not difficult to understand.
It's a general purpose language, but it does give you full control. Plus, of course, you can encode a large amount of program states in the type system and borrowing checks enforce rules that programmers usually have to check in their head.
I find that when I write Rust, I have to worry about an order of magnitude less about silly things like lifetime bugs, reference bugs, resource cleanup, all of which are 80% of my job when I write C#, or other similar managed languages.
Plus Rust can generate a static executable, which is reasonably small, and doesn't require a third party runtime.
As someone used to unamaged languages since 1986, and with a major focused on systems programing, it isn't that clear cut.
Rust executables are only 100% static on OSes that expose system libraries as static libraries, and there are not many of those around, outside embedded systems.
I've used both, and they are comparable in library support. I happen to write _much_ faster in Go, so it's usually my default choice for CLIs, unless I specifically need to bridge with another Rust program.
1. Historically a CLI like this would often be written in C, so Rust isn't that strange of a choice.
2. Rust is know for the borrow checker and being a great low level language. However, it's also an excellent modern general purpose language with a great ecosystem. People end up using it for all kinds of things because it's a joy to use.
"When I tried developing in Rust I came to the conclusion that you pay a heavy price for not having a garbage collector. Was I doing it wrong?"
Rust is tricky to grasp initially, the learning curve goes pretty much vertical immediately, but once you "get it" it's very nice. When I started out I overused borrowing and ran into heaps of lifetime problems. I think limiting yourself to only using references for function arguments and, rarely, return values is a good place to start. As soon as you are start adding references to struct you should stop and think about who owns the data and what its lifetime is. Thinking properly about ownership is the big shift from GC languages. Once you've gotten into that habit, lifetimes are downstream from that.
Rust is my main programming language and Python the second. Rust is very much useful for application programming - especially these sort of applications. In fact, Rust is the language I sometimes reach for when my shell scripts cross a certain threshold of complexity. Rust even has some tools and an RFC to address the use case of using it like a scripting language (I believe that Go has something similar too).
I don't face much friction from the borrow checker to consider it a 'heavy price for not having a garbage collector'. There are even tools like bacon [1] that can give your real-time feedback on your code. It's even better with the default language server. I sometimes train other developers in Rust - mostly people who are not even into systems programming (JS, Python programmers). However, they don't seem to struggle too much with the borrow checker either. Could you elaborate a bit on what you consider as 'the heavy price'? What sort of issues were you facing frequently?
Syntactically it's a pretty nice language, with a nice and sane ecosystem (crates, etc), and it's fun to write (which is a pro especially for unpaid hobby projects). If you get used to it, it's nice to write various things in it. I'd probably use it for CLI tools at this point.
You do pay a bit in syntactic overhead (lifetimes, borrow checking perplexities), though you get used to it. I'd still not use it for a standard product-y web app. For CLI tools though, it's pretty good.
I write a lot in Python, but I love to write small utilities in Rust as well. The tooling around command line stuff is just really good in Rust and the distribution (just a binary) is just simpler. On top of that Rust forces you to handle errors with IO, like paths correctly to a degree that gives you much more confidence in the resulting tool.
Honestly, Rust is a breeze to make CLI/TUI apps in. Some crates worth looking into: tokio (mostly for stuff built on top of it), clap, promptly, colored, ratatui. These are just a few ones to get you started, but there's lots more depending on what you need to accomplish!
Good dependency management, a rich package ecosystem, defaults to static binaries which are easy to distribute and a tendency to be fast (even if it’s just the lack of startup overhead) make it a popular choice.
It also helps that rust attracts the kind of devs that make nice tools.
As a user, if I have the choice between 2 apps, I’ll strongly favor a Go, Rust or ANSI C app over a Python, Ruby, Shell or C++ app.
This is because empirically, they usually work better, feel more polished, faster and I can easily contribute patches if I need. If a tool is written in Python, I’ll go out of my way to find a rewrite in another language.
Serious question: why not, if the author just knows Rust? Are you so allergic to anything written in Rust? Then get some new pills and ointments because there's going to be more and more of it.
As a Rust developer, let me point out that this is certainly the wrong way to respond when someone criticizes or makes an observation about Rust. Especially when they aren't hostile at all. It's clear from the commenters' question that they have a some preconceptions about Rust for which they are seeking clarifications from other Rust users. This sort of response will only make them give up on Rust due to the toxicity of the community, rather than address any real issues they may be facing.
The antibodies are probably to the "written in rust" addendum, which seems unnecessary unless rust adds something to the product. Much of the answer above to "why Rust" concerns the developer, and we are potential customers, so who cares? Just drop the "in Rust" and don't worry going forward.
Honestly though I thought we were past the "written in Rust" phase.
I just use a “dotfiles” folder that is a git repo and then hard-link the files in there into the home directory. One for unprivileged user and one for root on each platform. Simple enough and doesn't require an extra tool.
How do you handle differences between machines?
I use cheznoi to manage my dotfiles and share them between 6 different devices, 2 of them are work machines.
On my work machine I have maybe a 15% difference in config, primarily my hotkeys through keymapper, my SSH config files, and also the applications I have installed. Chezmoi let's me add logic to my source controlled config files that, based on the hostname/domain/network, etc let's me ouput different settings to the .config files, which I cannot do in the config files themselves.
For example:
On my home machine I have the following keymapper hotkey:
Windows + T: Activate Telegram
On my work machine that's mapped to:
Windows + T: Activate Teams
Saw the name "comtrya" and was immediately reminded of that episode of Stargate, but figured it had to be a coincidence. Cannot tell you how happy I was to see the gif in the readme :)
Likewise. I have two Mac laptops, three home servers, and a Windows desktop managed by Nix.
The home servers are nixOS, the rest basically have the CLI environment managed with nix-darwin and nixos-wsl, all with one flake (Git repo) containing all the configuration.
Case in point - this morning I’m rebuilding one of the servers onto new hardware, and the longest time spent was getting the flake config onto the server with git clone. Now just watching the rebuild switch command output, after which it’s good to go.
There are many of these tools but i don't like to think of these things like dotfiles.
What is a dotfile? A `.something` file in my home dir? is /etc/environment a dotfile? No, but i wan't to manage it still. What about Librewolf policies.json in /usr/lib64/librewolf/policies or similar. It's not a dotfile either.
For some tools, i need some other tools to exist already in path.
What about zsh where i want to sync 3 git repos for syntax highlighting and other scripts?
Also what about secrets, maybe i want some encrypted stuff so i need a solution for that also.
Ansible is the best for these things, no symlinks needed, just configure what you want to exist and where and you can template configs or copy them or use some modules like `git_config` to then generate that ini file etc. Ansible vault also handles encryption easily so i can manage ssh keys, passwords...
Dumb yet serious question : what problem is a dotfile manager even trying to solve?
Personally I have a git repo in my home directory and just commit dotfiles to it. The only drawback is that git always think there’s a git repo no matter where I am in my home, so I usually rename the .git folder to .git_hidden. And on the (rare) occasion that I want to update one of my dotfiles I just rename the .git_hidden directory back to .git.
It’s really just two “mv” commands, I can’t believe you need a tool for just that.
I recently learned it.
I have personal and work laptops (two work laptops as of now for different companies). 90% of dotfiles should be the same. But rest is pain to sync.
I’m using chezmoi that has templating mechanism that helps me.
FWIW, you don't have to do that rename dance; git allows specifying the name of the .git metadata directory via `git --git-dir=$HOME/.git_hidden ...` or `GIT_DIR=$HOME/.git_hidden git ...`
I don't know how big your .gitignore must be when trying to use a tool that wants to own every file and directory to manage your /home but if that works for you, more power to ya
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Is Rust building up a decent ecosystem now for application programming? When I tried developing in Rust I came to the conclusion that you pay a heavy price for not having a garbage collector. Was I doing it wrong?
It's a general purpose language, but it does give you full control. Plus, of course, you can encode a large amount of program states in the type system and borrowing checks enforce rules that programmers usually have to check in their head.
I find that when I write Rust, I have to worry about an order of magnitude less about silly things like lifetime bugs, reference bugs, resource cleanup, all of which are 80% of my job when I write C#, or other similar managed languages.
Plus Rust can generate a static executable, which is reasonably small, and doesn't require a third party runtime.
Rust executables are only 100% static on OSes that expose system libraries as static libraries, and there are not many of those around, outside embedded systems.
In fact there are a bunch of them for the terminal.
https://terminaltrove.com/language/rust/
https://terminaltrove.com/language/go/
1. Historically a CLI like this would often be written in C, so Rust isn't that strange of a choice.
2. Rust is know for the borrow checker and being a great low level language. However, it's also an excellent modern general purpose language with a great ecosystem. People end up using it for all kinds of things because it's a joy to use.
"When I tried developing in Rust I came to the conclusion that you pay a heavy price for not having a garbage collector. Was I doing it wrong?"
Rust is tricky to grasp initially, the learning curve goes pretty much vertical immediately, but once you "get it" it's very nice. When I started out I overused borrowing and ran into heaps of lifetime problems. I think limiting yourself to only using references for function arguments and, rarely, return values is a good place to start. As soon as you are start adding references to struct you should stop and think about who owns the data and what its lifetime is. Thinking properly about ownership is the big shift from GC languages. Once you've gotten into that habit, lifetimes are downstream from that.
*Perl
I don't face much friction from the borrow checker to consider it a 'heavy price for not having a garbage collector'. There are even tools like bacon [1] that can give your real-time feedback on your code. It's even better with the default language server. I sometimes train other developers in Rust - mostly people who are not even into systems programming (JS, Python programmers). However, they don't seem to struggle too much with the borrow checker either. Could you elaborate a bit on what you consider as 'the heavy price'? What sort of issues were you facing frequently?
[1] https://github.com/Canop/bacon
I will say that rust is pretty damn productive once you organize your brain around ownership. I haven't had to mark a lifetime in over a month.
I also recently started some open source projects (mostly CLI tools) where I picked Go for one reason: Rust’s learning curve is super steep.
In order to make my projects approachable for other developers Go seemed to be a better choice over Rust.
You do pay a bit in syntactic overhead (lifetimes, borrow checking perplexities), though you get used to it. I'd still not use it for a standard product-y web app. For CLI tools though, it's pretty good.
Dead Comment
Give it a try.
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It also helps that rust attracts the kind of devs that make nice tools.
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This is because empirically, they usually work better, feel more polished, faster and I can easily contribute patches if I need. If a tool is written in Python, I’ll go out of my way to find a rewrite in another language.
Honestly though I thought we were past the "written in Rust" phase.
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For example: On my home machine I have the following keymapper hotkey: Windows + T: Activate Telegram On my work machine that's mapped to: Windows + T: Activate Teams
The environments are basically the same in each but there’s some functionality I can do I one that I cannot do in another
https://github.com/cquintana92/dotfilers
Congratulations, you too unlocked the "None of the hundreds that are out there work exactly like I want, so I'll write my own" badge.
If you work a lot in remote dev environments (I use coder a lot at work) that really does the trick.
The home servers are nixOS, the rest basically have the CLI environment managed with nix-darwin and nixos-wsl, all with one flake (Git repo) containing all the configuration.
Case in point - this morning I’m rebuilding one of the servers onto new hardware, and the longest time spent was getting the flake config onto the server with git clone. Now just watching the rebuild switch command output, after which it’s good to go.
Ansible is the best for these things, no symlinks needed, just configure what you want to exist and where and you can template configs or copy them or use some modules like `git_config` to then generate that ini file etc. Ansible vault also handles encryption easily so i can manage ssh keys, passwords...
1. git clone my dotfiles repo
2. run `stow .`
3. profit
This pretty much guarantees that if my Mac dies today, I can just get up and running in no time on a new machine.
This looks like it can work with windows as well and you can easily switch between profiles if you have multiple which is great too
the functionality OP is searching for is already provided by chezmoi. and many more features.
Personally I have a git repo in my home directory and just commit dotfiles to it. The only drawback is that git always think there’s a git repo no matter where I am in my home, so I usually rename the .git folder to .git_hidden. And on the (rare) occasion that I want to update one of my dotfiles I just rename the .git_hidden directory back to .git.
It’s really just two “mv” commands, I can’t believe you need a tool for just that.
What am I missing out on?
I don't know how big your .gitignore must be when trying to use a tool that wants to own every file and directory to manage your /home but if that works for you, more power to ya
And I don’t even bother with ignoring files! I just git add the ones I want to track :)