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Posted by u/pz 7 months ago
Show HN: Emdash – Slack/Zoom alternative for distributed team collaborationemdash.io/...
Hi HN, I’m Phil, one of the co-founders building emdash. Previously, I was an early engineer at Facebook and led Customer Products at Square.

We’ve focused on making chat and video work together so distributed teams can stay aligned without drowning in information. You can try it here: https://emdash.io.

It frustrated us how easily important conversations would happen and then disappear. Slack never quite matched how we worked. Channels were too coarse which led to noisy notifications and broken search. Zoom meetings weren’t much better–unless someone took perfect notes (which rarely happened), video calls became black holes of lost knowledge.

We spent too much time trying to find the information we needed to do our jobs.

To address this, we’re testing a few concepts and would appreciate your feedback on the value of the following:

(1) Automatically record, summarize, and transcribe your team’s video chats. We store meeting content directly inside discussions to facilitate search and discovery.

(2) Make it easy to manage & organize conversations of varying scope. A chat between team members can be forked into a dedicated Discussion with its own audience permissions and subscription. Individual messages or entire Discussions can be moved after the fact. Conversations can evolve unpredictably, so having the right tools to keep them organized post-hoc was important to us.

(3) Improve search with AI and hierarchical information retrieval. We use LLMs to uncover insights, summarize content, and connect the dots across related discussions, meetings, and documents. You can ask questions like “What are the team’s priorities this week?” or “What did we decide to do with feature X?” and get back a generative response AND deep links into the original chats and meetings.

Try it out: https://emdash.io and tell us what you think!

RadiozRadioz · 7 months ago
I see no mention here of using a pre-existing standard chat protocol like XMPP or Matrix, it looks like they rolled their own. Therefore this is not interoperable and is yet another proprietary walled garden. No GNU/Linux client either. Next.
cryptonector · 7 months ago
That's the way the game is played in the IM space. Sucks, but the only way out of that is to build an open source product.
mtlsnk · 7 months ago
This looks great. What is the reason for adding the https://sso.tax? Why did you make SSO an enterprise feature?

Is it due to some (technical) reason that would require a monetary compensation to be profitable?

SSO has security benefits (on top of the maintainability aspect) which would also benefit small businesses.

wielrls · 7 months ago
To be honest, we're still finalizing our long-term pricing details. For what it's worth, "Sign in with Google" and "Sign in with Microsoft" are available to all users, and we'll prioritize additional canonical OIDC providers as demanded (let us know what you need!). 100% agree with the security benefits here. The SSO reference on our pricing page specifically applies to SAML-based IdPs, intended for customers who require further customization re: auth and provisioning strategy.
mtlsnk · 7 months ago
I hadn't the time to look around further, so I missed the Google and Microsoft SSO login options. As long as those are/remain free, there is no SSO tax.

I will have another look when I have more time, thank you.

IshKebab · 7 months ago
SSO tax seems like a very reasonable price differentiation method to me. Most of the price increases on sso.tax are quite reasonable for a company that needs SSO (most companies I've worked in don't bother until they are above 100 employees, despite what that site says).
paxys · 6 months ago
> most companies I've worked in don't bother until they are above 100 employees, despite what that site says

Companies don't "bother with" SSO because using SSO is expensive, since every product charges more for the privilege. Otherwise there's no reason why a 2-person company shouldn't be using SSO from the get go.

mtlsnk · 7 months ago
There are many small businesses that outsource their IT to managed service providers, but are understandably limited in their budget.

In my opinion, SSO tax results in arbitrary denial of employing best practices for these businesses.

Passwords are evil, because people generally don't care about security or don't have the capacity to employ proper hygiene around passwords. This likely means that SSO tax indirectly contributes to an increased number of account compromises (especially in small businesses, because more limited funds means more limited security; they're low-hanging fruit for bad actors).

anilgulecha · 7 months ago
> SSO tax seems like a very reasonable price differentiation method to me

Security is not a differentiation method. It's table stakes for any technical product. That's what the above linked website explains.

zinclozenge · 7 months ago
If they're offering SSO using a 3rd party provider like Auth0 then they probably have to charge for it because of how expensive it is.
hamzaaftab · 7 months ago
Really like the self-documentation of what the team is working on through the auto summarization and share-out of meeting. Strongly believe in "communication is the job" at tech companies, and with this it doesn't have to feel like a chore.
fred_h · 7 months ago
Thank you for the feedback. That’s exactly the idea. We see it as "write once, share everywhere." Conversations, meetings, and decisions can generate useful context, and having summaries automatically show up right where people are already working saves time down the road.
clacker-o-matic · 7 months ago
One note I have about your pricing page is that you don't explain what a startup or small to midsize team actually is. I would also much rather have a set pricing scheme immediately with a 60-90 day trial period similar to how slack works.
fred_h · 7 months ago
Hi, Fred here – I’m one of the founding team members. Thanks for the comment.

First, to the question about team sizes. We view "Startups" as generally teams with <25 users, followed by small/mid-sized "Growth" companies that have <250 employees. Beyond that, we anticipate most companies falling into the "Scale" category. That said, this could all be revised based on usage data and I will also update our website later today to reflect the above.

Regarding pricing, we haven’t finalized it yet because we’ve prioritized understanding how teams actually use emdash—what works, what doesn’t, and where we should focus.

Pricing is important, and we want to get it right. Typical usage patterns, evolving AI and cloud/infra costs, and where we fit competitively in the market are all variables we still need to explore. We’ll need to strike the right balance and be competitive enough with vis-a-vis the market.

It would be smart to start with a free trial before transitioning users to a paid plan. We’re still figuring out whether that should be time-based (e.g., 60-90 days), usage-based (e.g., after your 20th video meeting).

I get it – no one likes unexpected pricing shifts and when the time comes, we will be transparent about our thinking and communicate changes well in advance. Our goal is to build something sustainable, not just for us, but for the teams that rely on emdash. Hope this helps clarify.

rsyring · 7 months ago
"We haven't figured out pricing" sounds like a big turnoff for anyone seriously considering this who wants self service.

Just pick something that's a no brainier for people to try, change it later if you have to. Your biggest risk right now is people walk without giving the product real consideration. Lack of clarity on pricing will do that for a lot of people, even though you are offering a free trial.

cryptonector · 7 months ago
"Individual messages or entire Discussions can be moved after the fact" -- sounds like a start, but I want more.

Being able to tag chats with keywords would be nice. Being able to pull chats into docs easily would be nice. Being able to pull chats into more than one doc -- not just move, but tag/reference/copy. Global tags (with ACLs) as well as team and personal tags (also with ACLs) would be fantastic. Don't forget read and access ACLs, not just write ACLs.

Email integration would be nice. Emails -> IM, so I can read IMs and emails in one app. IM -> email (right-click on a range of messages, click send, get placed in $MUA and edit).

Don't forget retention controls, support for on-prem, etc.

pz · 7 months ago
> Being able to tag chats with keywords would be nice. Being able to pull chats into docs easily would be nice. Being able to pull chats into more than one doc -- not just move, but tag/reference/copy. Global tags (with ACLs) as well as team and personal tags (also with ACLs) would be fantastic. Don't forget read and access ACLs, not just write ACLs.

Tagging is another organizational feature that is on our roadmap and has always made sense to me. Right now our organizational model is primarily hierarchical which has obvious limitations.

RE: email integration - We have a pretty robust email integration right now. Neville was always insistent that we shouldn't force people into the app to have a conversation, especially for one-off collaborators who get looped into a chat. They can stay blissfully ignorant of the fact that the conversation is actually happening on emdash if it suits them.

drewfish · 7 months ago
I was at Yahoo when they did a big email redesign, and the new design didn't work for 1/2 their users. Digging deeper, they found that email users kinda fall into 2 camps: filers and pilers. Filers carefully organize their data so they can quickly navigate to their target. Pilers just collect stuff in a big pile and use search to find their target.

Sounds like you're a filer (I am too). Sounds like emdash is kind of a mix of filing and piling.

cryptonector · 7 months ago
I can't file. I can tag. I can't stand the idea that something belongs in only one box.
shaneos · 7 months ago
Great to see more competition in this space - I'm currently on Slack and not happy about it. Here's hoping Emdash can fill the void left by Workplace and get some momentum to put pressure on Slack. It's much needed
conradev · 7 months ago
Same here! Slack is… fine. The one catch for Emdash for me is that we are hybrid (3 days in office) and use Zoom Rooms for our conference room are pretty happy with it.
pz · 7 months ago
Amen. We've migrated teams from Workplace who really appreciated our hierarchical discussion model
wielrls · 7 months ago
> I'm currently on Slack and not happy about it

Yeah I heard that Slack is taking a breather this morning...

shaneos · 7 months ago
Heh, yeah that happened right after I made the post above. Fate, it would seem, has a sense of irony :-)
jesselawson · 6 months ago
Hi team--and hello Fred! You and I had some great conversations about Slack's direction--as well as its missed opportunities--back when we worked there together. I was leading developer education at the time, and frustrated with the decisions that were coming down that caused us to pivot away from what we agreed on was the "true core experience" of a collaborative messaging system: connecting users with the knowledge they need without having to parse through other knowledge that may be important in different contexts.

I'm genuinely excited that you're in this space now, too, as I myself have had my nose to the grindstone building out what the collaboration app for distributed teams that I've always wanted. We need options/competition in this space; just this year alone, I've had a little over a a dozen conversations with interested folks in teams across the United States working in industries from agricultural sensors manufacturing to game studios for hire, and the same pain points that you and I were reasoning about back at Slack are the same pain points that users still unwillingly tolerate.

See you around--and good luck out there!

PS. As an English major I'd be remiss to not share that I love the name emdash. :D

fred_h · 6 months ago
:wave: Great to hear from you, Jesse — and so interesting that we’re both still thinking about these same challenges all these years later. Collaboration is tough to get right, and we’ve definitely heard plenty of painful stories along the way too.

Wishing you the best with your work — I’ll be keeping an eye out for your launch. Good luck!

pz · 7 months ago
I should introduce the rest of the crew. We're a team of builders who have worked together for the better part of the last decade. Neville and I were early engineers on Facebook Ads. Neville later founded Rimeto, which was acquired by Slack. Fred has held various roles driving growth and was an early employee at Facebook, Doordash, and Rimeto. Nick jumped into startups right out of college, joining Rimeto and now diving back in with us at emdash.
asadawan · 7 months ago
pz, what a great username :)
bsk26 · 7 months ago
great team!