This is the same company which puts ads all over the OS, can't stop trying to upsell people into using onedrive, forcefully signs you into onedrive, syncs your local files into their cloud without consent, tries really hard to not let you sign in with a local account and most likely does other shady things.
Their hardware is more or less garbage. My Surface had a swollen battery which killed the device. It had other issues before the battery killed it.
Why would people give money to Microsoft for such bad hardware? They treat their customers like garbage.
Surface is pretty well regarded as I understand it. Microsoft set out to make 'the sortof macbook equivlaent for windows' and largely succeeded. Although obviously macbook remains the champion overall I guess. I'm sorry you had a battery problem.
For some of the best Windows hardware on the market, look no further than Microsoft’s Surface brand - WIRED
Also: I dont ever see ads in Windows, but I guess somone must be getting them. Not sure what I'm doing right to avoid them.
Do you sign in with a Microsoft account? If you do, that's probably the reason why you don't see ads in Windows 11. The system settings UI on Windows 11 always shows an ad which says that an account should be used to use office and other apps.
Microsoft has updated apps even on Windows 10 to recommend other apps. The Photos app was recommending a video editor app recently. Windows 11 shows ads, suggestions and installs a lot of garbage apps to upsell people into office 365, Onedrive and other things.
I recently had to reinstall my office that I bought. It signed me into an account without permission and uploaded documents there. I had to sign out of that account to prevent it from uploading documents automatically. Most of the documents I edit contain my PII. I can sue them.
Just swipe left to right on Windows 11. The widget page is like 60% ads disguised as news by default. It's so easy to trigger accidentally on Windows tablets. I feel like Windows 11 is the Windows 8 for tablets. They took pretty much every gain and good thing Windows had as tablet OS and made it garbage.
My Surface Laptop from 2019 wasn’t supported by Win11 because of TPM limitation (I guess there was a registry hack) but I expect the requirements for Win11 were defined by 2019 for its 2021 release, yet they skimmed on a very expensive prosumer laptop under their own Microsoft brand.
The new Windows mail app has ads in it that look almost exactly like normal emails. They pushed me to adopt it from the old mail app and I'm regretting the decision. Apple's mail apps never do that.
I'm glad I moved over to Mac. I know it's not perfect, but it's much better than Windows. They seem determined to lose customers.
I really like the concept of the Surface Book and got one several years ago. The keyboard no longer works when detaching the screen, so it's practically useless. Even a full reinstall didn't fix that issue.
Their new hardware is moot because ARM is just on a different level. Yeah, they can stick an H class Intel processor, but that will seriously heat up the laptop and eat the battery.
The only reason I still use a windows machine is because of gaming. I'm sure lots of users are on Windows because they have no choice.
> ...can't stop trying to upsell people into using onedrive, forcefully signs you into onedrive, syncs your local files into their cloud without consent, tries really hard to not let you sign in with a local account and most likely does other shady things.
This portion of the complaint was a playbook that was defined by Apple and icloud. Feels like an out of the frying pan into the fire situation.
I have had a few surfaces for work. They are actually really nice hardware, but the Surface Book had one design flaw, which would periodically disconnect USB headsets. That was my only real complaint.
the special firmware that microsoft uses in these machines breaks network, USB, anything that you attach to it. it just can't get power management right. I've been saddled with one of these for 5+ years and it just never got better.
>My Surface had a swollen battery which killed the device.
Statistically, all devices suffer from swollen batteries. I've even see iPhones and iPads die from swollen batteries. There's a certain tiny % fallout in manufacturing of battery cells where they may degrade and fail prematurely and swelling is a safety feature.
I had two surfaces die from swollen batteries. The problem was frequent enough that Microsoft Store staff (rip) would exchange it immediately, no questions asked.
This was back during the Surface Book 1 days. I’ve been a happy surface user ever since, and haven’t had any other battery or build quality issues since.
Eventually, almost all LiPo batteries will puff up. But there are definitely some devices that reliably cause this problem far sooner than it should occurr, due to poor charge management and thermal management.
Yeah, although, having owned a Surface Book 2, and being a .NET developer, the only Windows sytems I'll have in my home will probably be Microsofts own, unless someone makes laptops that are as nice, for half the cost. Things just work on my SB2. The only reason I'll buy a new one is if it either dies, or I see a really good deal. I've had it since 2017 iirc and its been pretty great thus far.
My next laptop will likely be a Mac, mines hit the mark where Apple wont let me update anymore, kind of makes me angry that Apple does that to perfectly usable hardware, but I like the ecosystem and my laptop was a min-spec anyway, needs to be upgraded, just waiting on a deal yet again.
Try https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/ I recently used it on a 2014 5k iMac to install Sonoma (14.3) and it's been flawless in my experience - everything is buttery smooth as you'd expect.
I also installed on a 2015 Macbook (12"...horrible Intel mobile processor.) It works, but the CPU is just too underpowered to do basic stuff like web browsing and messaging...if you're impatient like me anyway ;)
Dotnet on Linux is superior in every way to windows. No ads, no crap, vscode is better on Linux than windows and since .net framework is dead, no reliance on windows in any way, shape or form.
I mean, you’re probably deploying to Linux containers anyway.
>Their hardware is more or less garbage. My Surface had a swollen battery which killed the device.
Macbook has swollen battery issue as well.
Microsoft Hardware is more or less the best on the PC market. The only company that spend R&D money from I/O, Speaker, Keyboard, Trackpad etc to try and match Apple MacBook if not exceed it. And a lot of these innovation or improvements gets filtered through to other PC OEM over the years.
You can shit about Microsoft software all you want. But in terms of PC Laptop market, they have done far more than most of the other companies. Had Pro Gaming / Pro Sumer Laptop not been a thing most other laptop manufacture would continue to milk and sell absolute garbage a la HP or Dell not a long time ago.
My ThinkPad has okay support with the on-site option, but you're right on with all the other things.
I don't understand why Lenovo (and Dell and the other major PC makers) can see the $/sq.ft. that an Apple store generates and not open their own stores? I'd feel a lot more comfortable recommending a ThinkPad to a friend if there was a local place they could shop at, get repairs, and take classes.
Honestly, I find this to be such a weird argument. Apple does the same crap with iCloud and people put their hardware on a pedestal when it has the same inherent flaws, often for a much higher price. And maybe you share this opinion, I just want to point out that this hardware from MS is relatively benign in the grand scheme of the PC world.
Completely agree that Apple does the exact same stuff with account management and iCloud notifications, but I don’t understand where these arguments keep coming from that Apple is more costly.
The 13.5 sLaptop 6 for Business is, i5/8gb/256gb is $1200
Compare that the 14” MBP (M3/8gb/512gb) for $1600. The diff in SSD storage offsets some of the cost, but not the whole $400
However, the 13” MacBook Air with the same specs (although a much better CPU) - M3/8gb/256gb is actually $100 cheaper.
Until someone builds an actual M3 competitor, Apple’s making better laptops for cheaper.
I have an M1 16” MBP that’s still running laps around any other laptop I’ve ever owned, including the 15” sBook 2 with a 1060. The Windows Arm laptop I have sucks compared to the M-series.
Anyway, totally agree that Apple does the same cross-sell garbage as Microsoft, just think it’s way off to argue that their hardware is more expensive, at least meaningfully so when you compare the performance, longevity, and battery life.
The microsoft hardware and OEM devices that MS sold directly were historically THE ones to buy because they were optimized to show off Windows, so no crapware, good drivers, limited BS. I don't know when that changed, but it has.
>> are packed with features that business customers have been requesting
This is a total lie, unless they're referencing THEIR customers trying to sell you all this shit. The developer story from Microsoft is as good as it's ever been, but the consumer side just sucks. As a historically Windows developer who now does most of their work in .net core or totally outside the MS ecosystem, but still plays the odd triple-A game I don't know what to do for my next computer.
I wonder how much of a market there is for people who already know how to do BGA soldering (i.e. many phone repair shops) to offer RAM upgrades at a fraction of that cost.
The so-called "AI PC" is nothing more than a marketing gimmick. It has no new features, just a Copilot button on the keyboard and the same background editing function for web conferences that has been available for a long time.
DirectML is a low-level API that provides a common abstraction layer for hardware vendors to expose their machine learning accelerators. DirectML works with any DirectX 12-compatible device including GPUs and now NPUs. Support for Intel Core Ultra processors with Intel AI Boost was developed in close collaboration with Intel.
When I purchased a laptop last year I went with MSI:
32GB RAM
1TB SSD
4080 12GB
3 USBC
2 USB3.2
$2100 CAD.
My only complaint was Windows 11 which was immediately rectified. Though not before having a full screen Xbox Live ad that couldn't be closed through any means.
Since removing MS the laptop functions perfectly, runs models locally without any fuss and powers any game I want at 4k60hz or 3k144hz(1440p).
What is the reason for the high pricing of Surface models?
What’s the comparison like for the battery life and GPU? Afaik it’s the areas that really lag on the Intel side. I’m hopeful they’re competitive now on both.
Intel roughly doubled their iGPU performance with the latest Meteor Lake generation, but the low-power U series parts cut the GPU in half. So they'll still be in last place.
I liked it when their wonderful hardware design team tried really daring things with their form factors. The Studio giant screen you can tilt and draw on. The Surface Book that has the tilting screen. The one with the detachable screen. The Surface Duo and Neo.
I'm still waiting on my current, 60 hours of use a week, mid-2019 MacBook Pro to die or have any sort of malfunction so I can justify buying a new one. Its battery life has seen better days but that's basically it.
Surface Pro 4 had broken OpenGL driver. Every software that requires OpenGL (basically all CAD software) crashes on it. Microsoft has all the incentive to cripple OpenGL. A generic Intel graphic driver cannot even be installed on surface. You have to use the Microsoft supplied one. Never bought a single surface again.
The cherry on top of the unreliability is the high price of repairs. Even battery replacement runs around $400 for a Surface Pro, while a MacBook Pro battery replacement costs $250
Other anecdote, I cycle-toured for a year camping in all kind of uncomfortable places, and my Surface Pro 7 survived. The screen is cracked in a million places from getting smashed around with all my other kit, but it still works. The Type Cover is a bit crap, though. After going through one of them while on the road (PowerToys Keyboard Manager is your friend) now I've been living in an apartment with a roof and everything, and another one died from what I can only assume to be humidity. I gave up and switched to a cheap bluetooth keyboard instead, which kinda feels more cool and futuristic anyway.
Build Quality refers to how well a piece of equipment has been made [1]. The Surface's tablet has a sleek design with a great construction, uses quality materials and a quality finish that feels like a slab of luxury aluminum and glass in your hand.
In contrast poor build quality would be a thick piece of cheap plastic that creeks and rattles to touch.
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Their hardware is more or less garbage. My Surface had a swollen battery which killed the device. It had other issues before the battery killed it.
Why would people give money to Microsoft for such bad hardware? They treat their customers like garbage.
For some of the best Windows hardware on the market, look no further than Microsoft’s Surface brand - WIRED
Also: I dont ever see ads in Windows, but I guess somone must be getting them. Not sure what I'm doing right to avoid them.
Microsoft has updated apps even on Windows 10 to recommend other apps. The Photos app was recommending a video editor app recently. Windows 11 shows ads, suggestions and installs a lot of garbage apps to upsell people into office 365, Onedrive and other things.
I recently had to reinstall my office that I bought. It signed me into an account without permission and uploaded documents there. I had to sign out of that account to prevent it from uploading documents automatically. Most of the documents I edit contain my PII. I can sue them.
I really like the concept of the Surface Book and got one several years ago. The keyboard no longer works when detaching the screen, so it's practically useless. Even a full reinstall didn't fix that issue.
Their new hardware is moot because ARM is just on a different level. Yeah, they can stick an H class Intel processor, but that will seriously heat up the laptop and eat the battery.
The only reason I still use a windows machine is because of gaming. I'm sure lots of users are on Windows because they have no choice.
This portion of the complaint was a playbook that was defined by Apple and icloud. Feels like an out of the frying pan into the fire situation.
I would say the comparison to Macbooks is fair.
Statistically, all devices suffer from swollen batteries. I've even see iPhones and iPads die from swollen batteries. There's a certain tiny % fallout in manufacturing of battery cells where they may degrade and fail prematurely and swelling is a safety feature.
This was back during the Surface Book 1 days. I’ve been a happy surface user ever since, and haven’t had any other battery or build quality issues since.
My next laptop will likely be a Mac, mines hit the mark where Apple wont let me update anymore, kind of makes me angry that Apple does that to perfectly usable hardware, but I like the ecosystem and my laptop was a min-spec anyway, needs to be upgraded, just waiting on a deal yet again.
I also installed on a 2015 Macbook (12"...horrible Intel mobile processor.) It works, but the CPU is just too underpowered to do basic stuff like web browsing and messaging...if you're impatient like me anyway ;)
I mean, you’re probably deploying to Linux containers anyway.
Education, workplace policy. Managers _love_ Microsoft.
They still are, as long as you don't make the mistake of using them on Windows.
Macbook has swollen battery issue as well.
Microsoft Hardware is more or less the best on the PC market. The only company that spend R&D money from I/O, Speaker, Keyboard, Trackpad etc to try and match Apple MacBook if not exceed it. And a lot of these innovation or improvements gets filtered through to other PC OEM over the years.
You can shit about Microsoft software all you want. But in terms of PC Laptop market, they have done far more than most of the other companies. Had Pro Gaming / Pro Sumer Laptop not been a thing most other laptop manufacture would continue to milk and sell absolute garbage a la HP or Dell not a long time ago.
Deleted Comment
+ Terrible battery
+ Terrible build quality
+ Terrible support
+ Noise of fan having a stroke
I don't understand why Lenovo (and Dell and the other major PC makers) can see the $/sq.ft. that an Apple store generates and not open their own stores? I'd feel a lot more comfortable recommending a ThinkPad to a friend if there was a local place they could shop at, get repairs, and take classes.
Windows being somewhat bad, yes, definitely. However, the hardware auch as much higher res, OLED, touch, high refresh rate, pen etc. can be very good.
Dead Comment
The 13.5 sLaptop 6 for Business is, i5/8gb/256gb is $1200
Compare that the 14” MBP (M3/8gb/512gb) for $1600. The diff in SSD storage offsets some of the cost, but not the whole $400
However, the 13” MacBook Air with the same specs (although a much better CPU) - M3/8gb/256gb is actually $100 cheaper.
Until someone builds an actual M3 competitor, Apple’s making better laptops for cheaper.
I have an M1 16” MBP that’s still running laps around any other laptop I’ve ever owned, including the 15” sBook 2 with a 1060. The Windows Arm laptop I have sucks compared to the M-series.
Anyway, totally agree that Apple does the same cross-sell garbage as Microsoft, just think it’s way off to argue that their hardware is more expensive, at least meaningfully so when you compare the performance, longevity, and battery life.
On windows I literally get annoying notification to use OneDrive.
I guess I should feel fortunate that for Apple, at least the ads are limited to its own range of products.
We have a bunch of Surface products deployed at work and those people seem to love them. I can’t think of any high-rate failures affecting them.
Edit: Wow, I guess we have a lot of angry Apple fanatics here. Am I wrong somewhere? Please point it out. FWIW, I use and prefer Apple products.
>> are packed with features that business customers have been requesting
This is a total lie, unless they're referencing THEIR customers trying to sell you all this shit. The developer story from Microsoft is as good as it's ever been, but the consumer side just sucks. As a historically Windows developer who now does most of their work in .net core or totally outside the MS ecosystem, but still plays the odd triple-A game I don't know what to do for my next computer.
Dead Comment
Who cares. Just make sure Apple isn't allowed to hold a line on doing things differently, then everyone else can compete fine?
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/configure/Surface-Lapt...
DirectML is a low-level API that provides a common abstraction layer for hardware vendors to expose their machine learning accelerators. DirectML works with any DirectX 12-compatible device including GPUs and now NPUs. Support for Intel Core Ultra processors with Intel AI Boost was developed in close collaboration with Intel.
32GB RAM 1TB SSD 4080 12GB 3 USBC 2 USB3.2
$2100 CAD.
My only complaint was Windows 11 which was immediately rectified. Though not before having a full screen Xbox Live ad that couldn't be closed through any means.
Since removing MS the laptop functions perfectly, runs models locally without any fuss and powers any game I want at 4k60hz or 3k144hz(1440p).
What is the reason for the high pricing of Surface models?
I mean this sincerely. People are willing to pay for good design.
Dead Comment
Meanwhile, all my Thinkpads and MacBooks still work today.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/how-much-does-out-...
https://support.apple.com/mac/repair
In contrast poor build quality would be a thick piece of cheap plastic that creeks and rattles to touch.
[1] https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/build...
That was the situation brought with the Surface Pro 9 already, but I wish they did something to aleviate either of these.
It feels like the only decent upgrade from a Surface Pro 8 will be an Asus Z13 ?