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Posted by u/askhn234 2 years ago
Ask HN: Any advice on navigating this job market or pivoting out of tech? (US)
I'm about to finish my CS degree this May and I'm already sick of the tech industry. I'm at a loss. I know the job market could get better soon, but there's no guarantee that it will, and things are looking bad for us with less experience. There are multiple things that are demotivating me and making me feel hopeless, it's not just the constant news about layoffs.

- Based on what I've read here, in news articles, in company portals, on TeamBlind and on Reddit, outsourcing seems popular again. Seniors who comment online are quick to scoff at this, claiming that companies doing this are shooting themselves in the foot, and that they'll regret it just like last time. But here's the thing - even if the seniors are right, I need a job when I graduate. I'll need to pay my student loans. I need to pay the rent. I can't just wait a few years for things to hopefully get better.

- AI appears to be a real threat specifically for juniors. This idea used to be met with ridicule, but it seems obvious now. GPT-4 and Gemini Pro are already impressive, but just imagine the improvements in a year or two. Sure, this doesn't necessarily mean it'll kill programming, it's possible that this is just the next step after high level programming languages, but it still represents a threat to entry level developers like me.

- Perhaps this is less important now (I'd take any job at this point), but I've gradually lost interest in the only domain I have any real-world experience in, full-stack web development. I have been strongly considering switching to game development, despite the industry's reputation, but now I don't know if I can handle an even more cutthroat, competitive job market.

- Freelance work is an option I guess, but for someone like me it seems impossible. I only have a year of dev experience (including internship). I don't have a network. My sales skills are terrible.

- I am absolutely sick of the job search grind. I went through it in 2021-22 when things were "better", I don't want to deal with it again now that even experienced devs are struggling.

What are my alternatives? What other career can I pivot to once I get my CS degree? So far, I've thought about translating (I'm bilingual)

P.S. Please don't tell me to stop worrying and "doomscrolling". I already tried that a while ago and it didn't help, the uncertainty is still there, my interest in webdev is still dead and the job market is still bad.

dasil003 · 2 years ago
The thing missing from this post is any sense of whether you have talent and interest in programming. The closest you come is to say you've "gradually lost interest in [...] full-stack web development", but even there you use the language "only domain I have any real-world experience in". It's pretty clear the problem here is job search anxiety. Hey, I don't blame you, I started my software career in the summer of 2000, so I can relate to the doom and gloom.

The thing to remember is that your success is not primarily determined by macroeconomic trends. Sure some industries are clearly on a downward slope and you wouldn't want to start a career there, but tech is not one of them. Software is still eating the world, and yes AI will change it, code may go away, etc, but ultimately understanding and solving problems in complex systems is going to stay an incredibly valued skill for the foreseeable future.

So, are you any good at programming? If so, and it doesn't feel like pulling teeth, then I think you probably have more upside there. If not, and you want something stable and reliable over time, maybe consider the trades. Whatever you do though, understand all career success is based on being able to solve problems, and have the person with the money recognizing that you can provide an above average solution. The best path to this is get a job, any job, learn to do it exceptionally well, and make sure in your first 10-15 years you are continually learning and growing, and building good relationships with the people you work with. If you keep doing that serendipity will find you. No amount of pre-planning or strategizing is a substitute.

ethagnawl · 2 years ago
One option would be to land a steady, secure and simple job like a refuse worker.

I know it might sound ridiculous for someone graduating with a CS degree but it could work to your benefit -- especially if you're feeling burnt out and unsure about your field/focus. A friend of mine drives a garbage truck in a small town and works 3-4 hours per day: as long as it takes to do the route and empty the truck. He's got great health insurance, a 401K and a union. While I make more running a software consultancy, I have none of these benefits and am way more exposed to market fluctuation (like right now). You could spend your afternoons doing research, working on FLOSS, doing freelance dev gigs, etc.

EchoChamberMan · 2 years ago
Ah, good suggestion!
jasonjmcghee · 2 years ago
Assuming you did the course work and passed your classes, I'm guessing you're feeling some serious imposter syndrome. Many people get jobs after going to a 3-6 month coding bootcamp, and you just spent 3-4 years learning and letting all that knowledge slowly sink in.

GPT4 isn't doing the architecting, planning, understanding priorities, what should be built first and how, according to company needs and your own or your teams abilities.

If you understand what you're doing and are willing to work hard, you've got a valuable skillset- likely more than you realize.

frfl · 2 years ago
Game industry is going through huge cuts right now[1][2] after a covid/free money boom over the last few years and stagnant revenue growth now.

If you end up staying in this field, one very valuable piece of advice is use your free time, while looking for work, to prepare for interviews and specifically leetcode and other interviewing processes you're likely to face. It's basically standard operating procedure right now for both big and small companies. Look online at tech interview guides. If you're in the US, when hiring picks up again, it's probably the single best chance to financial well being, getting into one of the cushy tech jobs.

[1]: https://gamecraftpod.com/podcast/episode-02/ [2]: https://www.matthewball.co/all/gaming2024

nmca · 2 years ago
Few counterpoints:

* AI is better for juniors than seniors. It doesn't do legwork; it just provides knowledge.

* Blind is a toxic hellscape and redditors are broadly pretty dim.

Plausibly AI is a problem for your employment in like ~2 years; so I'd speedrun into SWE somewhere where you can make as much use of AI as possible (e.g. ask about whether the firm allows copilot, etc). There's no better industry to be in that tech for the next five years; ignore the noise.

dijit · 2 years ago
> AI is better for juniors than seniors. It doesn't do legwork; it just provides knowledge.

no, that is exactly the opposite of true, AI is brilliant at boilerplate and finding relevance if you know the right terms, just like search engines, it makes your existing knowledge more useful but it definitely does not provide knowledge.

you have to be able to fully comprehend the right answer with AI for it to be useful..

jasonjmcghee · 2 years ago
Not to mention hallucinations/ wrong answers. If your mental compiler / familiarity with referenced libs is the same as reading, you can respond "no xyz doesn't make sense / doesn't exist etc"

Having to incorporate an execution / compilation / test loop is going to slow that way down

roland35 · 2 years ago
I don't totally agree. As you ask it more specialized and high level questions that may be true, but for beginner level stuff AI is very helpful since there is quite a lot it is based on.
15457345234 · 2 years ago
> * Blind is a toxic hellscape and redditors are broadly pretty dim.

Reddit is, at this point, a literal mirror held up to reality.

Everything you read there isn't happening.

Maybe people want it to happen and think if they spam it enough times people will believe it is happening and report that it is happening, but it isn't.

If you read something on reddit, believe the opposite.

hifromLA · 2 years ago
I don’t disagree with this, but when did this happen? About a decade ago I remember Reddit being pretty decent. Did Reddit change or did I change?
dsattt · 2 years ago
It’s the same here as well. Everything you read about tech is wishful thinking.

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cleandreams · 2 years ago
Why not try working for local government. Around here those jobs are secure and have pensions.

I've also been broke and financially insecure and it will better once you can pay your bills even if it's not your fave. Go for whatever your experience is for the first job.

Clubber · 2 years ago
When I was growing up in my career, private sector jobs were considered much better than government jobs. I feel the private sector has been squeezed so hard the last 20+ years that public sector jobs are on par with private sector jobs and sometimes better. Most government jobs also have a pension, so once you work there 20 years or so, you can go find other work while collecting your pension.

If you have or can get a security clearance, you've just removed a bunch of competition.

vvanders · 2 years ago
If you think the current market is bad pivoting into the game industry is not the direction I would go.

The baseline for that industry is... bad and the latest round(s) of layoffs in that industry has made it worse.

Clubber · 2 years ago
Also the pattern as I understand it is game companies work devs to death then let them go once the release is out. The advantage game companies have is people tend to like games therefore there are a lot more people who are interested or default to game development.
CM30 · 2 years ago
Yeah from what I can see, the games industry is going through what the broader tech industry is, just dialled up to eleven. People are being laid off left, right and centre (especially from larger companies), companies are shutting down after years in business and both pay and working conditions are signficiantly worse than they are in every other form of software engineering.
exabrial · 2 years ago
I think the biggest asset for anyone (not you in particular) switching careers will be humility. Go into a new career will an earnest will to learn, go through the initiation, listen to seniors, take feedback and criticism (presented both well and poorly) without your ego going in the way, for at least 3-5 years.

Hate to say it, most of the software devs I know are pretty dammed high on their horses and it’s a bit obnoxious.

EchoChamberMan · 2 years ago
Your answer is predicated on the ability to get into said career.

Do many jobs list "humility" as a qualification they are looking for?

[Edit]

As a primary qualification, and not a company value or whatever.

CamelCaseName · 2 years ago
The good workplaces do. Low ego, high skill is a common refrain.
gmadsen · 2 years ago
that is what the interview is for

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