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Posted by u/burnedouteng 2 years ago
Ask HN: What to Do After Burnout?
I’ve spent the last 15 years working for startups and before that was doing software development for agencies, and I don’t think I can do the deadline driven pressure cooker work I’ve experienced in both of those anymore. Getting work done lately has been an incredible struggle — which just compounds the stress as things build up. I recently had a kid I would really like to be able to spend time with him without have work stress in the back of my mind, or being worried that I’m going to get pulled away to deal with a production incident.

I am still at a startup currently, mostly coasting on my previous reputation as someone who got stuff done and because I have no idea what do next. Getting a different job in a startup or an agency sounds like the last thing I want right now. From what I’ve heard big tech is not all that much different, and a non-tech programming job sounds like it’d be boring/horrible in a different way.

Software engineers who’ve experienced burnout — were you able to get past it and find a job you enjoyed in tech? Or did you have success switching careers entirely?

Uehreka · 2 years ago
My honest advice: Get out of the Hacker News hivemind.

The folks on this site act like every programming job is either at a FAANG/MAGMA company, a startup, or not in tech. They are wrong.

If you are willing to look outside the valley (but still in almost any big city or suburb), there are oceans of tech companies that work in like, financial compliance dashboards or healthcare documentation or if you’re OK with it defense contractors. You can make $150-250k easy. Your life will involve waking up, attending a standup on Google Meet, adding an endpoint to a REST API, sending it off to be tested, then around 2 you fix whatever the testers found, send it off again, then clock out once there’s nothing else in your swim lane (possibly before 5).

You won’t get equity, and you won’t have the outlandish salaries people are always talking about on HN, but you’ll also have the freedom to not think about your job outside of work hours. If what you want is to leverage your skills into a comfortable life where you can spend time with your kids, this is the move.

I’ve seen people burn out and try to leave tech for greener pastures, it often doesn’t turn out as well as they expect. In other fields, you’ll be a lot more fungible and you’ll come to realize how much cushion and leverage developers get from being a somewhat scarce resource.

itake · 2 years ago
I've worked at small non-tech companies (less than 50 people) and the quality of my peers was frustrating.
paulus-saulus · 2 years ago
I agree. Quit all IT news feeds and do only one thing . RELAX
hardkorebob · 2 years ago
I say quit it all And LEARN a new ontology. ;) Perhaps the (1972ACSP) Srimad-Purana or Gitoupanisad will assist? You want that year or previous. Anything after '72 is garbage.
spelunker · 2 years ago
IMO this can lead to a different problem: boredom. I worked at a previous job where the primary product was in KTLO mode, and the company was really just waiting to be acquired. Not much to do, and nobody cared.

I suppose it's really a spectrum in the end.

sierisimo · 2 years ago
I think this defines it. It's an spectrum.

I made my jumps in the last 4 years...

I got really burned out while working in a MAANGA company and move to a smaller company but the poor management of the projects made me quit.

I then joined an startup and there was practically no automation and no consistency across the codebase so it was really messy and hard to follow, every new task required to re learn the module/code where you were working and the management was not interested on changing anything. Even I got called out for "not contributing enough to the product and focusing more on automating stuff"

I'm going to start soon again at a big corp MAANGA style, the interviews showed the engineers are more happy and challenged there and there's not a big rush/demand as in the previous MAANGA I worked on... So yeah, it's a matter of searching what works for you

(Yes, I haven't found what works for me, but I still have hope)

kingTug · 2 years ago
It is really discouraging how defense contractors seem to be some of the easiest to get / most prevelant jobs at the moment.
zubairq · 2 years ago
Great advice! Hacker news is only for us degenerates !
nik736 · 2 years ago
This has one disadvantage: You will be working with people who don't want to work, do everything to waste your and their time and will drag you down. If you are fine with that everything is good, but if you have at least a bit of drive to achieve something great you will be very very unhappy.
jsiepkes · 2 years ago
If you are into those kind of generalisations you could easily argue that's not very different from working at FANG where a lot of people only care about their own career and care very little about creating good products.
seagullriffic · 2 years ago
Burnout is a thing which should be taken more seriously by more people.

Go on holiday. At least two months. The first week you'll think you're still at work. The second week you might have some time to collect your thoughts, and plan. Then beyond that you might hopefully have the headspace to catch up on chores and life admin.

Month two is for enjoying yourself and your family.

Do the above first. Not addressing your main Q; I'm sure there are good jobs which would still hold your interest/excite you.

cdnsteve · 2 years ago
This. Stop thinking about work by not working. Stop any development on your own side projects - nothing dev related.

Take time. Life is not a grind. North American culture is really bad at promoting this. Fully disconnect is the only real way to recharge, change your perspective and future plans.

hotpotamus · 2 years ago
> Go on holiday. At least two months.

If the OP is US based, then this may pose an issue as I'm not aware of any employer that would allow this, and presumably his family's livelihood and health insurance is dependent on his employment. A lot of that is an assumption, but quite a common situation.

iLoveOncall · 2 years ago
The employer doesn't have to allow it if OP uses FMLA.
alok-g · 2 years ago
Is there a reasonable level of confidence that this would work. Asking as a two-month holiday is significant.
Haul4ss · 2 years ago
> Getting a different job in a startup or an agency sounds like the last thing I want right now. From what I’ve heard big tech is not all that much different, and a non-tech programming job sounds like it’d be boring/horrible in a different way.

Here's the thing. Every job is a job. Even "doing what you love" comes with days when you really don't feel like doing it. There is no perfect job that will contain all the things you like about work and none of the things you don't like about work.

Furthermore, you will never ever get the first years of your kid(s) life back. You should be present for those years. Being burnt out and hating your job does not leave you the mental bandwidth to be present.

Taking a less glamorous job to make space in your life for other pursuits is not bad. Even if it's just for little while to reset. And have some perspective: you can enjoy some aspects of a job without enjoying all aspects. Pick what is most important for you and optimize for that. And the most important aspect is not fixed; it will change depending on your season in life.

I don't think I've ever been actually burnt out, but I have experienced the gamut of job satisfaction. You break out of it through self-reflection and understanding what you actually like and dislike about a job, and what really matters to you in life and how to build around that.

coldpie · 2 years ago
> Taking a less glamorous job to make space in your life for other pursuits is not bad. Even if it's just for little while to reset.

Agree. Quit the startup grind and find a middle-of-the-road position at a big company where you can take it easy, then work the minimum you need to feel OK with yourself. For example, 4-6 honest hours a day; if you're coming from an overwork startup culture, you'll still be out-working most of your peers even at that rate. If it's not done by 4 PM, then tough shit, it'll still be there tomorrow and someone else should've planned the project better. Then find other things to do with your newfound free time.

0xjmp · 2 years ago
I took a year off. I couldn't exactly afford it, and I didn't exactly sign up for it either (laid off). But it was exactly what I needed.

I lost a loved one and mistakenly assumed work peers would understand that I was struggling. They didn't. No secret the workplace makes people astoundingly cold. This left me feeling bitter at the industry.

Towards the 8 month mark I started to have a different crisis: I still didn't want to work again. Would I ever want to work again? Just in the knick of time I did find my stride. My point is that it took patience. You're in the wrong environment for that.

I'm sure you've heard this before but your work doesn't care about you. Your co-workers don't care about you. If you put even a small amount of care or emotion into the job you're playing yourself.

Your kid matters. Your job doesn't. Your deadlines are a lie made up by someone who should be focused on going to therapy. Sounds like you're a driven, talented individual. Take a break for you and your kid. That ambitious drive won't leave you just because you took a break to focus on what actually matters.

Swizec · 2 years ago
Burnout doesn’t really come from too much work, you can be swamped to the brim and feel no burnout. Or you can be sitting bored for 8 hours at your desk stretching out 1 hour of responsibilities to last all day and feel super burned out.

The real cause of burnout is toil for no reward. It sounds like whatever used to motivate you to get shit done isn’t there anymore. Any amount of work you don’t believe is worth the effort will make you feel burned out.

A good book about this is Peak Performance. Pairs great with The Passion Paradox. They cite more researchy/academic sources, if that’s what you’re into.

I’d suggest starting there. Looking into what used to motivate you, why it’s missing, and thinking deep about what it is that you do want to do. Then find ways to do that.

azdle · 2 years ago
> Or you can be sitting bored for 8 hours at your desk stretching out 1 hour of responsibilities to last all day and feel super burned out.

Can confirm, this is exactly how I burnt-out at my first professional job. I've burnt-out of 3 jobs, and I honestly think make-work / work-stretching burnout was the worst, or at least the most soul crushing. (Though, to be fair, it was also the first for me, so I was least equipped to know what it was / deal with it.)

debacle · 2 years ago
For the last five years I've worked exclusively with non-profits and companies who are aligned with some sort of social good.

Coming from the agency/startup world, things are completely different for me now. Can't get something done at 6pm on a Friday? That's okay no problem we'll look into it Monday. Or Tuesday. Or Wednesday. Or next quarter.

It's a completely different way of working, antithetical to the adrenaline chasing, weekend ruining pursuits of my youth (I think I'm old enough to say that now).

My income is smaller. Much smaller. But on an hourly basis I am probably making about the same as I was before, and every aspect of the job is much more pleasurable.

lgkk · 2 years ago
Sorry but how do things get done at that place? Can’t imagine not getting things done, I mean non profit it’s in the name but whatever cause it’s for surely suffers..
sebstefan · 2 years ago
Americans when they discover working a normal 40h week:
debacle · 2 years ago
Things are getting done all the time, but there is a lot to do and few resources so prioritization is important and context is key.
edgyquant · 2 years ago
Not all non-profits are government funded rent seeking bureaucracies
simmanian · 2 years ago
Could you disclose where you work, or some of the orgs you see yourself working at?
theptip · 2 years ago
IME working at a big tech company post-burnout is much more relaxing than working at a startup. There is definitely opportunity & reward for working hard and getting stuff done, but planning timelines and deadlines are so much longer. And none of the existential dread from “will we run out of runway” or “how do we get to PMF”.

Especially if you go in a level or two below your actual tryhard level, you’ll still likely earn more than you would in a startup (sans home run exit). You can still do good work on interesting problems, but with more breathing room for work/life balance.

busterarm · 2 years ago
IME it's trading one pressure cooker for another.

There's less time pressure but more organizational inertia and sickness blocking doing _any_ meaningful work.

If you're the kind of person that can just punch a clock and not give a shit, fine, but someone used to working in startups is someone used to taking responsibility for things and that's career death in big orgs or asking for further burnout.

theptip · 2 years ago
My recommendation for recovering from burnout is to find the sweet spot of caring less about the work, while not finding it boring. Care 60%, not 0 or 100.

“Sometimes I work hard, sometimes I just work”. It’s hard to “just work” on something you are passionate about. I think most startup folks will need to correct in the direction of caring less about work. (For a while! Not forever!)

I agree with your concern in that this is a U-shaped cost function. You don’t want to over-correct. But it’s not binary. You can care less than 100% and not be “punching in”.

There is a lot of variance between orgs and even teams within an org. But there are definitely companies where startup folks can do good work and not feel burnt out by the organizational inertia.

nprateem · 2 years ago
The opposite of burnout - rust out - can be a serious problem for good devs in large orgs where it's impossible to get anything done. Just fill the downtime by working on side projects, hobbies, fitness, etc. Even still it can be draining achieving nothing at work.
ramraj07 · 2 years ago
Sure but that just doesnt gel with also getting burned out.
xutopia · 2 years ago
I'm going to share this article that helped something click for me when I was experiencing a burnout. https://lifeofaudrey.com/essays/surviving_burnout.html

The part that really spoke to me was the first paragraph. It helped me find my way.