Cutesy cartoon saying no JavaScript but all examples are JavaScript. Html first but you need npm install. Convinced this is satire designed to annoy me.
Cannot stress enough how every framework for development that starts with "npm install" is inaccessible to most amateurs by its very nature.
I'm not sure what drives developers to be so insular with thought and make so many assumptions about others. It seems like basic gate-keeping activity, but maybe it's just ignorance.
I'd say otherwise. JS is one of the largest and most vibrant communities because it is the opposite of hard. And because the amount of investment you get in and the amount of payoff you get out is emotionally delightful. And because there is a huge and competitive ecology of pedagogy on YT and other places.
You don't get to this size because it's so hard. People aren't joining JS for the relatively low prestige, they aren't joining because the paycheck compares any better to any other part of the industry, and they aren't joining because of any promise of intellectual development — they're joining because it's the most accessible doorway in the tech community today.
There's no other part of the industry that's so clogged with amateurs trying to join.
The only other industry I can think of which is so hot in its community energy would be Python and ML, but they appeal with a different set of values. ML is hot because it's prestigious, ML is hot because the job market is insanely hot, ML is hot because it promises boundless intellectual exploration.
I agree. I’ve used nodejs quite a bit, but I rarely need it for whatever I am doing and quite often actively avoid it because all of that shit is a pain in the ass over just writing a script in an ide or even direct text.
I think it's completely fair to criticize it. It's claiming to be "the" html framework, but then you have sveltekit and Astro which are far more HTML friendly and easier to get started on for non JS devs.
This just comes off as a ploy to hijack the meaning of HTML.
Continued: No one is complaining about the framework itself. Everyone is talking about what you're claiming to be, which you're not. The quality of the framework itself hasn't been alluded to.
Normally I wouldn't object like this, but this actually confused me so I'll share it. This should be "HTML-first full stack web framework". I initially read as "The HTML (first full stack web framework)" which immediately soured me on the claim to somehow be the first full stack web framework. Or some other reformulation of the motto which eliminates "first full stack web framework" from a potential garden-path interpretation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden-path_sentence , so as to spice up my grammar complaint with an HN-style link of interest.
The other file in that example is JS, and interestingly it uses a plain template literal without an `html` tag or anything to help with language tools and syntax highlighting
"HTML First" versus "HTML Only" aside, I hadn't heard of this one before, and it looks promising.
I've been looking for simpler frameworks that do less, because I'm tired of coming back to projects I've set aside for six months or a year and having to basically relearn and rewrite them to match all the updates and incompatible changes the framework made in the meantime.
At first glance this looks like it handles the essentials and doesn't try too hard to handle anything else; I'm going to give it a try.
Readit News
I'm not sure what drives developers to be so insular with thought and make so many assumptions about others. It seems like basic gate-keeping activity, but maybe it's just ignorance.
You don't get to this size because it's so hard. People aren't joining JS for the relatively low prestige, they aren't joining because the paycheck compares any better to any other part of the industry, and they aren't joining because of any promise of intellectual development — they're joining because it's the most accessible doorway in the tech community today.
There's no other part of the industry that's so clogged with amateurs trying to join.
The only other industry I can think of which is so hot in its community energy would be Python and ML, but they appeal with a different set of values. ML is hot because it's prestigious, ML is hot because the job market is insanely hot, ML is hot because it promises boundless intellectual exploration.
Jokes aside, it's a full stack framework, you need some server-side language. It's the served html that is (optionally) javascript-free.
Sure, not exactly "pure", but the point was basically to make it look like that.
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How about this example?
https://github.com/enhance-dev/enhance-starter-project/blob/...
This just comes off as a ploy to hijack the meaning of HTML.
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https://github.com/enhance-dev/enhance-starter-project/blob/...
(I just copy/pasted the website's <meta> description without thinking too much about it. I agree though.)
Edit: Or JSX. I dunno. I successfully avoided learning react so far.
I assume that by default all that JS runs on the server and HTML gets returned to the browser.
They seem to be using tagged template literals (like lit-html does). They are essentially functions.
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Refe...
What examples are you referring to?
https://github.com/enhance-dev/enhance-starter-project/blob/...
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GitHub says ~30% of that repository is JavaScript code. Seems strange for a HTML-first framework.
I've been looking for simpler frameworks that do less, because I'm tired of coming back to projects I've set aside for six months or a year and having to basically relearn and rewrite them to match all the updates and incompatible changes the framework made in the meantime.
At first glance this looks like it handles the essentials and doesn't try too hard to handle anything else; I'm going to give it a try.
More discussion from last year: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32987840