The reality not so much. I tried it a few months ago and found:
* Scanning the QR code to install the esim requires internet - it can't activate the sim card to get internet unless it already has internet. Seems like a bit of an oversight!
* Once provisioned, the mobile network doesn't actually activate your account for a few hours. Kinda takes away the benefit of 'one click and go'.
* The phone is hardcoded to only support 4G via esim, although the phone itself supports 5G if you use a physical sim on the same mobile network. Nobody on the forums has managed to make it work.
* If you damage the phone, there is no way to transfer the esim to a new phone. I assumed it would transfer over automatically as part of backup/restore, either via cable or cloud backup, but no.
* The mobile network has no ability to transfer the sim over either. Apparently their software doesn't allow it. The only way is to transfer to a physical sim, wait for it to arrive, then mark the physical sim as lost, and then reorder an esim. Great - that takes 4 days, during which you have no service.
Most of these flaws are problems with the mobile network's policies and processes. But some are with the esim spec (not allowing backup/restore, not having enough info in the QR code to connect to a network without internet).
Overall, esims have so far caused me hours of frustration and little benefit.
You've already acknowledged that most of the issues you encountered are specific to your phone or carrier. For example, eSIM works fine with 5G on iPhones and in my experience there is no delay to activate an account. I've set up multiple phones on eSIMs and never experienced something like that.
Regarding backing up, yes it would be nice if you could backup your eSIM alongside the rest of your phone contents, however the real solution is just making it easy to provision a new eSIM.
In my experience, if I need a new eSIM I just open the carrier app and reinstall it to the phone.
I wasted a couple hours dealing with the fact that my carrier wants an ICCID to activate an eSIM, but iPhone eSIMs don’t have (or at least don’t show) an ICCID until after activation.
My carrier literally has a webpage explaining how to do it on an iPhone, and the page is blatantly wrong. Good job testing.
I think they've got a fair point, though, that a number of those issues with the eSIM reflect reliance on factors outside their control (for example, whether or not one's carrier has competent backend systems) where before swapping a SIM card was a physical action within their control. It's a frustrating feeling when a new technology takes something out of your hands in the name of convenience but, far from being seamless, actually introduces problems that are entirely out of your hands to fix.
The carriers are the problem, though. In many countries there's at most one eSIM carrier, some don't allow it for pay-as-you-go and their implementation is often generally poor.
There's very little a carrier can get wrong with a SIM.
For data-only SIMs while traveling, eSIMs are pretty great. I can just download an eSIM from an app and it's ready to go in minutes. Yes, it requires wifi or another working data plan to get started, but that's way easier than having to find a shop that sells physical SIM cards. If I didn't need to keep my phone number, I'd just stick with data only eSIMs. Unfortunately, I need to keep my phone number because a ton of banks and other accounts that I need to do business have required SMS-only 2FA. Recently, I bought a new phone while traveling and Google Fi wouldn't let me activate a new eSIM without returning to the US. If I would break my phone abroad, it would be an absolute nightmare. eSIMs shouldn't have this problem, but they do.
Park your number with a voip firm. You'll get SMS via email. Use local pay-per-use sims wherever you travel. You do not need to maintain a US phone plan to keep a US phone number.
> The phone is hardcoded to only support 4G via esim, although the phone itself supports 5G if you use a physical sim on the same mobile network
I suppose it's an operator problem. 5G with eSIM most certainly works on T-Mobile US. I've also had 5G working on AT&T Mexico eSIM when I was in 5G coverage area (very spotty). Can't tell about travel eSIMs (such as Airalo) as I haven't used those in areas with 5G coverage.
> Once provisioned, the mobile network doesn't actually activate your account for a few hours.
Worked nearly instantly for me every time I've tried. Definitely must be a sloppy operator or some error during provisioning.
There's another issue with eSIM: In Canada, all of the carriers offering it charge $10 to provision an eSIM. You get a little plastic card with a QR code on it, and once provisioned, it's totally useless.
Want to switch your phone? $10 and you have to go to the carrier physically.
The iPhone feature where you can transfer an eSIM appears to work with carrier support, and the carriers here I've tried all don't support it so the process fails.
What is most frustrating about this is that they insist on mailing the QR code card to you after you pay up on the carrier website. (as-in postage, in an envelope, arrives in 5 biz days).
Why not just show me the QR code on my computer right after I pay your fee? It's quite ridiculous.
My kids use e-sims from Orange France on their iPhones in Canada. 365-day great for kids that are always around WiFi, but need data once in a while. I basically pay for 5 gigs and it lasts a year. Roams on Telus, Bell, Rogers on 5G.
I think for 3 kids, I pay about 10% of what I would pay for them to have monthly plans from a Canadian carrier.
I've had similar experiences, although not quite as expensive. I think it was either 3€ or 4€ to get a new eSIM, which you would do by logging to the carrier's website, clicking a button and scanning the resulting QR code PNG. Absolutely nothing about the process warrants that cost and obviously the operator is blocking from using the iPhone-to-iPhone eSIM transfer tool.
I called up my operator before I decided to switch to another operator. Got a whole slew of excuses for it. "Transfers are blocked for security purposes." Didn't figure out a security benefit for the surcharge. "You'd have to pay for a new physical SIM card too", except I wouldn't because physical SIM cards are REUSABLE. Tried to use this line of reasoning against the operator by asking to not order a new eSIM but reuse the eSIM I already had, but no dice.
Thankfully I managed to find a phone plan that was cheaper than the one I had, so I fixed my eSIM issue and got slight savings on top. Of course after I signed the new contract, my existing operator decided to ring me up and butter me up again. At least this time they admitted that it was just pure rent-seeking and they surely could've given me a free eSIM. Too bad my mind had been made at this point.
It's insane. You can no longer pop your sim into your alternate phone (eg for testing). If you want to, that's $10. Want to switch it back? Another $10.
> Scanning the QR code to install the esim requires internet - it can't activate the sim card to get internet unless it already has internet. Seems like a bit of an oversight!
Not an oversight at all. The key exchange has to happen online, as key material is generated on-device, not delivered in the QR code.
> Once provisioned, the mobile network doesn't actually activate your account for a few hours. Kinda takes away the benefit of 'one click and go'.
That is absolutely your operator's issue; I've been up and running in 60 seconds.
> The phone is hardcoded to only support 4G via esim, although the phone itself supports 5G if you use a physical sim on the same mobile network. Nobody on the forums has managed to make it work.
Which phone is this? I get 5G via eSIM on my Pixel 5, and it works fine on all 5G-capable iPhones too.
> If you damage the phone, there is no way to transfer the esim to a new phone. I assumed it would transfer over automatically as part of backup/restore, either via cable or cloud backup, but no.
Nope; the secret key never leaves the phone. Contact your operator and they send you a new QR, which for me took five minutes and I had the QR in my email inbox.
> The mobile network has no ability to transfer the sim over either. Apparently their software doesn't allow it.
See above.
> The only way is to transfer to a physical sim, wait for it to arrive, then mark the physical sim as lost, and then reorder an esim. Great - that takes 4 days, during which you have no service.
Sounds like you should pick an operator that doesn't suck quite as much.
Physical SIMs can also be and are segregated to a specific network e.g. it’s still possible to buy only 3 or 4G SIMs that are cheaper heck until recently even 2G only SIM packages were a thing.
As far as the other problems go it’s the same with physical SIMs again.
Nearly all physical SIMs today are provisioned OTA so it quite often can take 24-48 hours for your physical SIM to activate especially if you migrate your number between carriers.
The only way to get an “instant” SIM provisioning is to go to a large physical store even the smaller ones are pretty much the same as getting the SIM delivered to your house i.e. they take you through the same phone/internet based activation and provisioning process.
You’re also wrong about the internet requirement the provisioning system for eSIM does not require internet on the device for access the QR code is essentially an authentication code that combined with the IEMI allows you to register with a carrier.
You usually do need an internet connection on another device to get the QR code in the first place but if you can also use a checkout terminal or just get a paper print out of the QR.
> it quite often can take 24-48 hours for your physical SIM to activate
In my world, I land in an airport, purchase a SIM card and it works before I leave the airport (or the operator’s desk). It’s often that way with eSIMs purchased via Airalo.
The delay could appear when your transferring your number, but even then you can still use a temporary number until the old one overrides it.
Also (at least for my iPhone 12 mini), you can only have one esim. I have a SIM for two countries and one of them has to be physical, which is unfortunate.
That sounds like something an overly eager and feared manager pushed through because it sounds nice, you know "eSim" and there was nobody to tell him / her it's a stupid idea or maybe there was, but got shut down.
Many organisations suffer this problem and there is really no good solutions to that.
My Vodafone eSIM wouldn't work on 5G. After a week of back and forth with customer service they said I was on the wrong plan, please give them more money to get 5G.
this is why apple spent time and effort on an area where most carriers and manufacturers do not. eSIM on iPhone are instantly transferrable, reconnectable, and available on setup of any logged in device.
The think I hate most about eSIM is we kept around the idea of SIM locking (EUICC lock, also referred to as "carrier visibility" or "carrier reveal").
I bought a bunch of refurbished/renewed iPads for my business and 7 of them were EUICC locked to AT&T. You could put any physical SIM in the iPad and it would work but it would not let you use a non-AT&T eSIM. AT&T refused to talk to me unless I had an account with them, I did, and then told me those iPads were not in their system, there was nothing they could do, and I should see about returning them and getting new/replacement ones.
I spent multiple hours on the phone and on their support forums and got nowhere (over the span of 2-3+ weeks). Finally I filed an FCC complaint and the issue was fully resolved in 3 days.
FCC/CFPB complaints are great tools to use and I recommend reaching for them sooner rather than later. I have examples of being jerked around by companies for a period of weeks or longer and then the issue being fully resolved in a matter of days after filing a complaint. It's my new "complain on twitter to get better/faster service".
Do you have details on what kind of complaint you filed?
I have an iPhone with a similar problem -- physical SIMs work with any carrier. However, T-mobile ESIM is the only one I've been able to get work. T-mobile insists the phone has no lock and tells me to go to Apple. Apple tells me to go to T-mobile. End result is I can't activate any ESIMs outside of T-mobile's.
3. Phone Availability Sub Issue: No Service Available
4. Your Phone Method: Wireless (cell phone/other mobile device)
The rest of the fields should be self-explanatory. I mentioned EUICC lock in my description and a few days later I got a call from AT&T and then a few days after that it was fixed.
>I spent multiple hours on the phone and on their support forums and got nowhere (over the span of 2-3+ weeks). Finally I filed an FCC complaint and the issue was fully resolved in 3 days.
This costs taxpayer money, to have an enforcement agency to deal with BS like this and have them waste time on these matters.
There should be a huge fine that the company in question (AT&T here) must pay every time something like this happens and it turns out it was their fault. When companies like this cost everyone else time and money, they should be heavily penalized, so they'll fix their broken internal processes.
The state public service / utility commission is similar with utilities. Verizon let some of their phone infrastructure rot, it fell and was dangling over my yard between a couple of poles. I called them and got all sorts of runaround for days. I filed a complaint and a guy was there in 2 hours assessing the situation and it was fixed by bedtime.
Their newfound responsiveness was because they have a limited number of hours to respond, at which point fines accrue hourly.
The main problem with eSIM is that they are still little HSM modules controlled by the carrier. This results in most of the problems that people are complaining about in this thread.
1. You can't swap the SIM yourself because the HSM is designed not to reveal the secrets.
2. You can't provision offline because the carrier needs to encrypt the payload to the target HSM. In theory I guess if the target phone was known it could be provisioned once and uploaded repeated (for fast eSIM swapping between different SIMs in the same device). But there may also be some form of replay protection.
What I would like to see is that the eSIM is just a config file with connection info and credentials. Then the device itself is in charge of connecting, sharing and whatever else. The user is in control and can transfer or swap as they see fit.
The downside would be that this data is easier to steal if it isn't in a TPM but no one said that you couldn't put it into a TPM. It is just user choice now. For example the keys could be uploaded to the TPM much like today. Or it could be encrypted with a TPM key and stored on the device (this would allow easily changing eSIMs or transferring between devices). You could even do things like escrow a copy to a trusted backup location so that you can restore the eSIM to a new phone if you lose or break the old phone. (Although you may need to revoke the old creds if they are at-risk of being stolen from the old device.)
The carrier should be a dumb pipe. I don't like how much control they have over my hardware.
Hardware Security Module. Basically an embedded device that stores cryptographic keys and performs cryptographic operations (like encrypting/decrypting/signing).
EDIT: HN is throttling me for responding too quickly so I'm responding to the comment below this. eSIM uses UICC hardware, not unlike a cryptographic smartcard (think PIV or OpenPGP smartcards). It's built upon the same kind of cards as physical UICC (SIM) cards are. You have a CPU, some memory, and the ability to store applets usually written in java. Where eSIM/eUICC is different is it is an implementation of downloadable SIM profiles. The standard does allow for, and there are physical removable eSIM's made. The phone controls profiles on them using apdu commands at the low-leve: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_card_application_protoco... . Check my prior comments on the matter.
Meanwhile, small/private operators can't even leverage eSIM. We're trying to run a CBRS-based LTE deployment in-house and can't find a single company willing to work with us to get eSIM provisioning capabilities because we can't just make eSIMs like we can physical ones -- thanks to eSIM's fairly obtuse cryptogatekeeping by the GSMA, we can't do anything without their blessings.
Every single company that we've found that claims to do small-scale eSIM personalization/SM-DP/etc services just... won't answer our sales forms. Monogoto, Teal, Globalgig, Smartjac... nobody.
EDIT: To note, of course, if we were willing to spend tens of thousands directly with a manufacturer or company that actually does this stuff for a living (selling the whole core/radios/etc) I'm sure they'd bend over backwards, but we know how to deploy open5gs and buy eNodeBs that work in our system and deploy them as-is (up to and including abusing former Pollen Mobile gear) -- we already have a dozen or so devices on via physical SIM in our office.
Kotakat!! I attempted to ping you on discord but it wouldn't let me. I found your discord posts super helpful with Pollen gear! Thank you for that. I might be able to help with esims, asking someone right now. Are you doing data only? or ims too?
As a digital nomad + business traveler, eSims are total misdirection and more cumbersome experience:
Case in point - I stay in Country A (home country) for 3 months, Country B for 2 months, and then C for 3 months, back to A. Until now I used an Android with Dual-SIM (physical) and all I had to do was: put in physical-SIM whenever I am in and call it a day. With iPhone and more and more phone manufacturers praising about eSIMs, not anymore.
Country B/C/D etc may have extremely complex or underwhelming infrastructure/process to support e-SIMs. Lots of issues with “network reception not working” to troubleshooting the signup process. Heck, there are additional charges in some countries for eSIM vs. physical sim.
I had a carrier outright take 40$ on eSIM and then fail provisioning because Pixel phones weren't on their whitelist. They refused to return the money or provision my backup Samsung phone.
Last time I traveled to a EU country from the US I tried an travel esim service. For a single sample of an unlocked iPhone and and Airalo app it worked flawlessly. Not affiliated with the app, but I may use it again and am curious about different experiences.
I bought the esim about a week ahead and installed it and the validity period auto activiated when I turned on the profile in reach of a valid network.
Is your complaint that activation is troublesome and bureaucratic? Isn't that also true with physical SIMs?
With eSIM, you should be able to just have all three eSIMs stored on the phone, marking the one you want to use as active, and switching whenever you want, with no need to carry around physical bits of plastic any more.
This has been my experience with my iPhone 13 when traveling.
> Is your complaint that activation is troublesome and bureaucratic? Isn't that also true with physical SIMs?
No? Normally SIM card activated by carrier before sending to you, like a cable/satellite card would be. It just works when you put it in devices, can be swapped around between devices without a secondary internet connection. Same if you buy prepaid sim at a store, many countries you can just buy and activate at checkout, then put in phone, no carrier helper apps needed.
> With eSIM, you should be bale to just have all three eSims stored on the phone, marking the one you want to use as active, and switching whenever you want, with no need to carry around physical bits of plastic any more.
If wanting to change devices you need an internet connection and hope activation app/site isn't down, call on the phone to manually transfer (which requires a working phone service), or go into a store. Many carriers will not activate eSIM devices they don't recognize the IMEI of. The situation is only fairly seamless currently with iPhone in the US, most international carriers don't support the automatic iPhone transfer stuff. It's kind of a mess everywhere else on Android.
Giving you real example of buying SIM card in 3 countries (Thailand, Vietnam, Russia) within last 6 months:
You step into the shop/kiosk at the airport (or in the city, however you prefer). They ask you to choose any SIM with desired numbers, plans are clearly well-written, take xerox of your passport (or click a snap of it), and plug the SIM in, pay money, reboot phone, and that's it. It did not take me more than 10 minutes in any scenario.
In all cases, it is cheaper (than using Airalo - and why are we promoting one app anyway!)and less hassle-free than buying eSIM.
Unfortunately it gets worse in other countries such as Mexico.
Most carriers will only provision a eSIM if you are on a contract through them. So lets say you are traveling for US to Mexico with an iPhone 14 (no physical sim) you are SOL. Extremely frustrating.
Only good news is once those contracts are up the used market I hope will force a change in this behavior.
For travel, it’s great. When I went to Germany four years ago, getting data on my phone without paying an exorbitant roaming fee involved waiting until I got to Germany, buying a SIM card at a train station, then finding WiFi access so I could complete the registration process, which involved a video call with a Deutsche Post agent to verify my passport for some reason. The last time I went a few months ago, I bought an eSIM before I left, and it activated automatically as soon as I landed in Europe.
Granted, I think a large factor in the hassle the previous time was due to German regulations involved in getting a phone number, but since I didn’t want or need a German phone number it was just unnecessary hoops to jump through. Now I can buy an eSIM from any number of countries that is valid throughout the EU with way less hassle, and I can get service from whatever provider I like rather than having to depend on whichever SIM card I happen to find at the local shop.
I’ve also never had an eSIM swap take hours to days—they’ve always been effectively instant for me. When my phone was damaged and I couldn’t get the eSIM transferred to a temporary phone while I got it repaired, I was surprised by how easy it was to generate a new eSIM online. If I had lost my phone, and I had a spare phone to use, getting service transferred with an eSIM would be a matter of minutes, rather than hours or days to get a replacement physical SIM.
Last time I went to Germany (2015), T-Mobile had run out of physical SIM cards. We queued up at Vodafone for half an hour. By this point, the store was closing. The employee gave us a SIM but didn't activate the plan correctly. So our €10 was all used up with hours instead of being good for a month. And we had to go back in the next day to sort out it.
eSIMs, EU roaming regulations, and carriers like Google Fi have all improved the situation markedly. Though dealing with Vodafone has not.
> you just swap the physical sim and have new service.
If I'm traveling, I don't really want to have to manage my physical SIM while it's outside the phone. With eSIM and a service like Airalo, I can use the airport wifi to get data on my phone (or do it ahead of time), not have to pull my current SIM out of my phone, and the price is really low too. I use it every time I travel to Europe.
It's true the time delay is a little bit annoying but it seems to me the tradeoff is "preserve physical SIM" vs "wait 10min-2h". Pretty fair trade, no?
To me the advantage of eSIM is coupled with dual SIMs, something that wasn't very common in the US until the arrival of eSIM. Now when traveling I can purchase an eSIM instead of pay my operator a ton of roaming fees. But I can still keep my main SIM active, just with data disabled.
It's not that any of this was impossible without eSIMs but it's created a new market of online-only SIM sellers. Before eSIMs I'd have to be without data when I first arrived somewhere new while I buy a local PAYG SIM. Don't have to worry about that any more.
> What is the advantage to the customer here?
Outside of dual SIM applications I don't think it's a whole lot more complicated than online retail being considerably more convenient than in-person. When switching providers you often have to time it correctly: make sure the plan is expiring on your old SIM when you put in the new one. Having a SIM arrive instantly makes that a lot easier. Plus it's just a lot easier to make a spontaneous purchase.
Just got back from 2 separate trips to Europe with an iPhone 14 pro (eSIM only US model). The first trip I landed in Germany, remembered I needed a phone plan when I landed, and got a 1 month unlimited plan on DT using the airport Wi-Fi and was good to go. For the 2nd trip to France I downloaded a short traveler plan eSIM to my phone before leaving and activated when I got off the plane.
In both cases it was easier than dealing with physical SIMs. Also there was no concern about how many slots the phone had, it can even store extra non-active eSIMs on top of having your two active ones.
Same. I landed in Turkey last month and picked up a Europe-wide eSIM via the airport WiFi. Quick and easy. It saved me faffing with storing my local SIM somewhere safe for a month and from having to find a SIM store that isn't trying to rip off tourists.
There are companies (won’t endorse any in particular) that will let you buy data eSIMs for virtually any country. They can be downloaded before you leave or using airport WiFi, and usually activate automatically when you arrive.
I went to Japan and used Ubigi, which has service basically anywhere, to add dual-SIM and have data. I also used Airalo. Both worked great with e-SIM, and it was painless to get data activated and working. There was also a large variety of plans to choose from. I really liked the whole experience!
Interesting, maybe a paranoid in the dictatorship realised eSIM support would mean it'd be much much easier for someone to get a foreign SIM (just get a QR code delivered) and bypass the great firewall.
Sorry to be the (usual) pessimist, but with a physical SIM, if your phone breaks, you can take the SIM and put in another phone (a spare one, a borrowed one), with the eSIM, this becomes complex or impossible:
Having done exactly that, I can tell you that your information is not accurate. The damaged iPhone was completely unusable, and I had no trouble transferring the eSIM to an older spare iPhone. There was no need to touch any approval message on my old phone.
>3. Check for instructions on your previous iPhone to confirm the transfer. To confirm, tap Transfer or, if asked for a verification code, enter the code that's displayed on your new iPhone.
Yes, very likely carriers (and phone manufacturers) are in the process of making the transfer easier, but it remains more complex than a physical SIM.
I wonder how the "same QR code" might work, I mean, let's say you have your e-sim on your phone, and someone steals the original QR code, if all is needed is to scan it, then the thief could "install" your e-sim to another phone, there must be something else in the procedure to guarantee the de-activation on your phone and allow the transfer, the point is if it is doable with the old phone not functioning.
Readit News
The reality not so much. I tried it a few months ago and found:
* Scanning the QR code to install the esim requires internet - it can't activate the sim card to get internet unless it already has internet. Seems like a bit of an oversight!
* Once provisioned, the mobile network doesn't actually activate your account for a few hours. Kinda takes away the benefit of 'one click and go'.
* The phone is hardcoded to only support 4G via esim, although the phone itself supports 5G if you use a physical sim on the same mobile network. Nobody on the forums has managed to make it work.
* If you damage the phone, there is no way to transfer the esim to a new phone. I assumed it would transfer over automatically as part of backup/restore, either via cable or cloud backup, but no.
* The mobile network has no ability to transfer the sim over either. Apparently their software doesn't allow it. The only way is to transfer to a physical sim, wait for it to arrive, then mark the physical sim as lost, and then reorder an esim. Great - that takes 4 days, during which you have no service.
Most of these flaws are problems with the mobile network's policies and processes. But some are with the esim spec (not allowing backup/restore, not having enough info in the QR code to connect to a network without internet).
Overall, esims have so far caused me hours of frustration and little benefit.
Regarding backing up, yes it would be nice if you could backup your eSIM alongside the rest of your phone contents, however the real solution is just making it easy to provision a new eSIM.
In my experience, if I need a new eSIM I just open the carrier app and reinstall it to the phone.
My carrier literally has a webpage explaining how to do it on an iPhone, and the page is blatantly wrong. Good job testing.
There's very little a carrier can get wrong with a SIM.
I suppose it's an operator problem. 5G with eSIM most certainly works on T-Mobile US. I've also had 5G working on AT&T Mexico eSIM when I was in 5G coverage area (very spotty). Can't tell about travel eSIMs (such as Airalo) as I haven't used those in areas with 5G coverage.
> Once provisioned, the mobile network doesn't actually activate your account for a few hours.
Worked nearly instantly for me every time I've tried. Definitely must be a sloppy operator or some error during provisioning.
Want to switch your phone? $10 and you have to go to the carrier physically.
The iPhone feature where you can transfer an eSIM appears to work with carrier support, and the carriers here I've tried all don't support it so the process fails.
Why not just show me the QR code on my computer right after I pay your fee? It's quite ridiculous.
I think for 3 kids, I pay about 10% of what I would pay for them to have monthly plans from a Canadian carrier.
I called up my operator before I decided to switch to another operator. Got a whole slew of excuses for it. "Transfers are blocked for security purposes." Didn't figure out a security benefit for the surcharge. "You'd have to pay for a new physical SIM card too", except I wouldn't because physical SIM cards are REUSABLE. Tried to use this line of reasoning against the operator by asking to not order a new eSIM but reuse the eSIM I already had, but no dice.
Thankfully I managed to find a phone plan that was cheaper than the one I had, so I fixed my eSIM issue and got slight savings on top. Of course after I signed the new contract, my existing operator decided to ring me up and butter me up again. At least this time they admitted that it was just pure rent-seeking and they surely could've given me a free eSIM. Too bad my mind had been made at this point.
[1] http://www.realfairforcanada.ca
There’s your problem. Not much to do with esims.
> Scanning the QR code to install the esim requires internet - it can't activate the sim card to get internet unless it already has internet. Seems like a bit of an oversight!
Not an oversight at all. The key exchange has to happen online, as key material is generated on-device, not delivered in the QR code.
> Once provisioned, the mobile network doesn't actually activate your account for a few hours. Kinda takes away the benefit of 'one click and go'.
That is absolutely your operator's issue; I've been up and running in 60 seconds.
> The phone is hardcoded to only support 4G via esim, although the phone itself supports 5G if you use a physical sim on the same mobile network. Nobody on the forums has managed to make it work.
Which phone is this? I get 5G via eSIM on my Pixel 5, and it works fine on all 5G-capable iPhones too.
> If you damage the phone, there is no way to transfer the esim to a new phone. I assumed it would transfer over automatically as part of backup/restore, either via cable or cloud backup, but no.
Nope; the secret key never leaves the phone. Contact your operator and they send you a new QR, which for me took five minutes and I had the QR in my email inbox.
> The mobile network has no ability to transfer the sim over either. Apparently their software doesn't allow it.
See above.
> The only way is to transfer to a physical sim, wait for it to arrive, then mark the physical sim as lost, and then reorder an esim. Great - that takes 4 days, during which you have no service.
Sounds like you should pick an operator that doesn't suck quite as much.
As far as the other problems go it’s the same with physical SIMs again.
Nearly all physical SIMs today are provisioned OTA so it quite often can take 24-48 hours for your physical SIM to activate especially if you migrate your number between carriers.
The only way to get an “instant” SIM provisioning is to go to a large physical store even the smaller ones are pretty much the same as getting the SIM delivered to your house i.e. they take you through the same phone/internet based activation and provisioning process.
You’re also wrong about the internet requirement the provisioning system for eSIM does not require internet on the device for access the QR code is essentially an authentication code that combined with the IEMI allows you to register with a carrier.
You usually do need an internet connection on another device to get the QR code in the first place but if you can also use a checkout terminal or just get a paper print out of the QR.
In my world, I land in an airport, purchase a SIM card and it works before I leave the airport (or the operator’s desk). It’s often that way with eSIMs purchased via Airalo.
The delay could appear when your transferring your number, but even then you can still use a temporary number until the old one overrides it.
Many organisations suffer this problem and there is really no good solutions to that.
Which phones and model(s)? iPhone (X/11/12/13/14)? Google Pixel Pro 6/7? Samsung Galaxy (S20 or upwards)? Huawei? Oppo? Sony? Xiaomi? Other?
I bought a bunch of refurbished/renewed iPads for my business and 7 of them were EUICC locked to AT&T. You could put any physical SIM in the iPad and it would work but it would not let you use a non-AT&T eSIM. AT&T refused to talk to me unless I had an account with them, I did, and then told me those iPads were not in their system, there was nothing they could do, and I should see about returning them and getting new/replacement ones.
I spent multiple hours on the phone and on their support forums and got nowhere (over the span of 2-3+ weeks). Finally I filed an FCC complaint and the issue was fully resolved in 3 days.
FCC/CFPB complaints are great tools to use and I recommend reaching for them sooner rather than later. I have examples of being jerked around by companies for a period of weeks or longer and then the issue being fully resolved in a matter of days after filing a complaint. It's my new "complain on twitter to get better/faster service".
I have an iPhone with a similar problem -- physical SIMs work with any carrier. However, T-mobile ESIM is the only one I've been able to get work. T-mobile insists the phone has no lock and tells me to go to Apple. Apple tells me to go to T-mobile. End result is I can't activate any ESIMs outside of T-mobile's.
1. Go here https://consumercomplaints.fcc.gov/hc/en-us/requests/new?tic...
2. Phone Issues: Availability
3. Phone Availability Sub Issue: No Service Available
4. Your Phone Method: Wireless (cell phone/other mobile device)
The rest of the fields should be self-explanatory. I mentioned EUICC lock in my description and a few days later I got a call from AT&T and then a few days after that it was fixed.
This costs taxpayer money, to have an enforcement agency to deal with BS like this and have them waste time on these matters.
There should be a huge fine that the company in question (AT&T here) must pay every time something like this happens and it turns out it was their fault. When companies like this cost everyone else time and money, they should be heavily penalized, so they'll fix their broken internal processes.
The state public service / utility commission is similar with utilities. Verizon let some of their phone infrastructure rot, it fell and was dangling over my yard between a couple of poles. I called them and got all sorts of runaround for days. I filed a complaint and a guy was there in 2 hours assessing the situation and it was fixed by bedtime.
Their newfound responsiveness was because they have a limited number of hours to respond, at which point fines accrue hourly.
1. You can't swap the SIM yourself because the HSM is designed not to reveal the secrets.
2. You can't provision offline because the carrier needs to encrypt the payload to the target HSM. In theory I guess if the target phone was known it could be provisioned once and uploaded repeated (for fast eSIM swapping between different SIMs in the same device). But there may also be some form of replay protection.
What I would like to see is that the eSIM is just a config file with connection info and credentials. Then the device itself is in charge of connecting, sharing and whatever else. The user is in control and can transfer or swap as they see fit.
The downside would be that this data is easier to steal if it isn't in a TPM but no one said that you couldn't put it into a TPM. It is just user choice now. For example the keys could be uploaded to the TPM much like today. Or it could be encrypted with a TPM key and stored on the device (this would allow easily changing eSIMs or transferring between devices). You could even do things like escrow a copy to a trusted backup location so that you can restore the eSIM to a new phone if you lose or break the old phone. (Although you may need to revoke the old creds if they are at-risk of being stolen from the old device.)
The carrier should be a dumb pipe. I don't like how much control they have over my hardware.
EDIT: HN is throttling me for responding too quickly so I'm responding to the comment below this. eSIM uses UICC hardware, not unlike a cryptographic smartcard (think PIV or OpenPGP smartcards). It's built upon the same kind of cards as physical UICC (SIM) cards are. You have a CPU, some memory, and the ability to store applets usually written in java. Where eSIM/eUICC is different is it is an implementation of downloadable SIM profiles. The standard does allow for, and there are physical removable eSIM's made. The phone controls profiles on them using apdu commands at the low-leve: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_card_application_protoco... . Check my prior comments on the matter.
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Every single company that we've found that claims to do small-scale eSIM personalization/SM-DP/etc services just... won't answer our sales forms. Monogoto, Teal, Globalgig, Smartjac... nobody.
EDIT: To note, of course, if we were willing to spend tens of thousands directly with a manufacturer or company that actually does this stuff for a living (selling the whole core/radios/etc) I'm sure they'd bend over backwards, but we know how to deploy open5gs and buy eNodeBs that work in our system and deploy them as-is (up to and including abusing former Pollen Mobile gear) -- we already have a dozen or so devices on via physical SIM in our office.
Case in point - I stay in Country A (home country) for 3 months, Country B for 2 months, and then C for 3 months, back to A. Until now I used an Android with Dual-SIM (physical) and all I had to do was: put in physical-SIM whenever I am in and call it a day. With iPhone and more and more phone manufacturers praising about eSIMs, not anymore.
Country B/C/D etc may have extremely complex or underwhelming infrastructure/process to support e-SIMs. Lots of issues with “network reception not working” to troubleshooting the signup process. Heck, there are additional charges in some countries for eSIM vs. physical sim.
This shit never happened with physical SIMs.
I bought the esim about a week ahead and installed it and the validity period auto activiated when I turned on the profile in reach of a valid network.
With eSIM, you should be able to just have all three eSIMs stored on the phone, marking the one you want to use as active, and switching whenever you want, with no need to carry around physical bits of plastic any more.
This has been my experience with my iPhone 13 when traveling.
No? Normally SIM card activated by carrier before sending to you, like a cable/satellite card would be. It just works when you put it in devices, can be swapped around between devices without a secondary internet connection. Same if you buy prepaid sim at a store, many countries you can just buy and activate at checkout, then put in phone, no carrier helper apps needed.
> With eSIM, you should be bale to just have all three eSims stored on the phone, marking the one you want to use as active, and switching whenever you want, with no need to carry around physical bits of plastic any more.
If wanting to change devices you need an internet connection and hope activation app/site isn't down, call on the phone to manually transfer (which requires a working phone service), or go into a store. Many carriers will not activate eSIM devices they don't recognize the IMEI of. The situation is only fairly seamless currently with iPhone in the US, most international carriers don't support the automatic iPhone transfer stuff. It's kind of a mess everywhere else on Android.
You step into the shop/kiosk at the airport (or in the city, however you prefer). They ask you to choose any SIM with desired numbers, plans are clearly well-written, take xerox of your passport (or click a snap of it), and plug the SIM in, pay money, reboot phone, and that's it. It did not take me more than 10 minutes in any scenario.
In all cases, it is cheaper (than using Airalo - and why are we promoting one app anyway!)and less hassle-free than buying eSIM.
Most carriers will only provision a eSIM if you are on a contract through them. So lets say you are traveling for US to Mexico with an iPhone 14 (no physical sim) you are SOL. Extremely frustrating.
Only good news is once those contracts are up the used market I hope will force a change in this behavior.
Around here, as long as the phone isn't locked to a carrier [1], you just swap the physical sim and have new service.
With the esim you suddenly need the phone manufacturer's approval. Perhaps masked as a software incompatibility.
Swaps take hours to days.
What is the advantage to the customer here?
[1] And carriers are required to unlock your phone for a nominal fee when the contract period ends.
Granted, I think a large factor in the hassle the previous time was due to German regulations involved in getting a phone number, but since I didn’t want or need a German phone number it was just unnecessary hoops to jump through. Now I can buy an eSIM from any number of countries that is valid throughout the EU with way less hassle, and I can get service from whatever provider I like rather than having to depend on whichever SIM card I happen to find at the local shop.
I’ve also never had an eSIM swap take hours to days—they’ve always been effectively instant for me. When my phone was damaged and I couldn’t get the eSIM transferred to a temporary phone while I got it repaired, I was surprised by how easy it was to generate a new eSIM online. If I had lost my phone, and I had a spare phone to use, getting service transferred with an eSIM would be a matter of minutes, rather than hours or days to get a replacement physical SIM.
eSIMs, EU roaming regulations, and carriers like Google Fi have all improved the situation markedly. Though dealing with Vodafone has not.
I did not have to visit a physical store and it cost me about $5.
I landed. Opened the app. Got the esim and was on my way. I then could alternate between sims easily.
I imagine if I had to travel between other continents same steps would apply. Cell service is quite expensive in the US.
I have to point out that my question still stands. The only ones speaking in favour of esims seem to be USers traveling abroad.
I currently have 5 eSIMs installed on my phone and I can switch at anytime without having to find/carry the SIM cards.
Also in theory if I lose my phone I can just download them again. In practice this might not be as smooth though.
If you change phone more often than you change SIM, you’re right that eSIMs provide zero advantage to you.
If I'm traveling, I don't really want to have to manage my physical SIM while it's outside the phone. With eSIM and a service like Airalo, I can use the airport wifi to get data on my phone (or do it ahead of time), not have to pull my current SIM out of my phone, and the price is really low too. I use it every time I travel to Europe.
It's true the time delay is a little bit annoying but it seems to me the tradeoff is "preserve physical SIM" vs "wait 10min-2h". Pretty fair trade, no?
I have not experienced this and I've now used a few different eSims on my iPhone.
[edit: at home in the USA and when traveling internationally]
[edit 2: people are downvoting this, but it's a genuine question!]
Are all esims supported by your phone? Even if it's theoretically a standard.
It is only free and instant if you are in the military.
It's not that any of this was impossible without eSIMs but it's created a new market of online-only SIM sellers. Before eSIMs I'd have to be without data when I first arrived somewhere new while I buy a local PAYG SIM. Don't have to worry about that any more.
> What is the advantage to the customer here?
Outside of dual SIM applications I don't think it's a whole lot more complicated than online retail being considerably more convenient than in-person. When switching providers you often have to time it correctly: make sure the plan is expiring on your old SIM when you put in the new one. Having a SIM arrive instantly makes that a lot easier. Plus it's just a lot easier to make a spontaneous purchase.
With eSIM there's a tighter coupling between the phone and carrier. Not sure if I like that.
> Apple’s move to make eSIM the only option for iPhone 14 range in the U.S. is propelling the worldwide shift towards eSIM technology.
Speaking of which, I know for a fact that the iPhone 14 sold in India has a SIM card slot (eSIM also supported).
In both cases it was easier than dealing with physical SIMs. Also there was no concern about how many slots the phone had, it can even store extra non-active eSIMs on top of having your two active ones.
I'm not sure what you mean? Carriers already have the ability to lock a phone to their network, regardless of eSIM or not.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32138466
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212780
>3. Check for instructions on your previous iPhone to confirm the transfer. To confirm, tap Transfer or, if asked for a verification code, enter the code that's displayed on your new iPhone.
Might be different for different carriers.
I wonder how the "same QR code" might work, I mean, let's say you have your e-sim on your phone, and someone steals the original QR code, if all is needed is to scan it, then the thief could "install" your e-sim to another phone, there must be something else in the procedure to guarantee the de-activation on your phone and allow the transfer, the point is if it is doable with the old phone not functioning.