Without an understanding of their motive, I think tying "google" to a person's mental health crisis is clickbait.
Folks dealing with mental health issues might end their lives for a variety of factors. This is very sad to hear, but the headline (and article) that attempts to connect an employer to a person's death without any evidence is unfair.
Well if it was a google employee who committed suicide at home, or off of the various many other places you could chose to kill yourself in Manhattan, I'd generally agree. This person however, jumped off their employers office building.
there’s no indication it was an intentional jump. the article says no note or video and that they found handprints, meaning at some point this person was hanging on a ledge.
so it is misleading to say he “jumped” if it ends up being an accidental fall.
there’s plenty of people who climb ledges in NYC to take photos at night, so would not be surprised if this ends up being entirely accidental as a result of trying to take photos
Google employs 200,000 people. Suicide rate in the US is ~13 per 100,000 per year. This means there is an expected base rate of Google employees committing suicide per year regardless of working conditions that is likely higher than just 2. Maybe there is a real issue but two suicides within such large number of employees isn’t statistically significant.
EDIT: I added "statistically" in the last sentence to clarify my intended meaning.
Their living in NYC is a more obvious connection, as there are studies showing that urban populations have significantly higher rates of mental disorders.
One of the statistical slights of hand of which I am rather unfond is gun deaths that don't mention that slightly more than half of them are suicides. This reminds me a bit of that.
Google says that Alphabet had 190,234 employees in 2022. The annual age-adjusted suicide rate is 13.42 per 100,000 individuals. Males die by suicide 3.5 times more often than females. A real actuary (I wish I had known that was a profession!) could work the numbers better than I, but I don't think this is out of line on a statistical level, sad as it is to say.
People also did this with Foxconn. Supposedly at Foxconn's scale, the suicide rate wasn't alarming, but with people living in dorms and having suicide nets set up, it looks bad.
It wasn't clear when I read that the rate wasn't alarming if they were comparing the Foxconn rate to the entire general population rate or just the employed general population rate.
> I think tying "google" to a person's mental health crisis is clickbait
It's total clickbait and highlights the shameful narrative on HN and Reddit about "Mmm, Google bad." A guy just died and people are trying to push their own narrative without any sort of validity. Shameful and disgusting.
A coworker of mine committed suicide a couple of weeks before the date in which the company had announced that they would lay off some of us. This period of time in which we know layoffs were coming but we didn't know who was going to be let go was morale-destroying and I have no doubt in my mind that it pushed him over the edge.
He left behind his wife and two children. His name was Dave Brackman.
Such a sad news. It’s really tragic someone go through this.
I know the incident could be unrelated but it is also a good reminder the human cost of decisions. The fed taking decisions for the economy, companies taking decisions to maximize shareholder value and ceo pay, etc. all have huge impact on people’s lives, some of it is visible, while some of it is not.
The article says no note, no video, and they found handprints.
This was nearly midnight at an outdoor terrace in the office. I guess I don’t see how anyone can say he “jumped” on purpose yet when at some point he must’ve been hanging which could have been a result of tripping on something.
> I don’t see how anyone can say he “jumped” on purpose yet when at some point he must’ve been hanging which could have been a result of tripping on something.
Wouldn't having a barrier low enough someone can trip and fall over be a recipe for a lawsuit? I imagine the barrier was high enough planting hands would be the natural way for most people to get on top or over.
I worked somewhere in midtown. We had access to a small roof above the main terrace. We were up there drinking after a party at 2 AM, sitting on the wall 8 stories up. I'm thinking don't fuck up because if you lean back, there's nothing between you and Sixth Avenue.
> I know the incident could be unrelated but it is also a good reminder the human cost of decisions. The fed taking decisions for the economy, companies taking decisions to maximize shareholder value and ceo pay, etc. all have huge impact on people’s lives, some of it is visible, while some of it is not.
Not trying to be a jerk here, but this is not a good reminder of any of those things you listed. We have literally 0.0 reason to think that any of those were factors.
Sad to see such talented people take their life. Until a further investigation is made, it's hard to determine the cause. Getting into Google can be the pinnacle of one's life and ending it there is certainly symbolic.
Edit: Upon further reading, how do we know exactly they jumped if there's no video evidence? Was it an accident? The article does not state enough.
Identifying with your employer to the extent you view it as the pinnacle of your life isn’t likely to end positively. It’s just too much control to cede to a third party who has a business relationship with you.
This is a tangent, but it reminds me of the plot of The Three Body Problem. The story begins with a series of suicides from top physics researchers because physics just stops working for some mysterious reason which is revealed later in the book.
I loved that series of books and this highlights why I like it so much. It's an "optimistic" view of humanity. People are serious in the book so its entirely plausible that physicists are so distraught at the futility of their efforts to understand the universe that they end their life if the universe is broken. And government officials are worried and dig into the issue. The book follows that theme as humanity puts forward a strong centralized effort to combat a threat. Human's aren't just a joke or a stepping stone. It's really a breath of fresh air compared to a lot of sci-fi that makes humans out to be idiots or malevolent. I don't know if it has to do with the book being from a Chinese author
> I don't know if it has to do with the book being from a Chinese author
The "knowledge being suppressed by semi-omnipotent aliens" plot is a fairly heavy analogy with the Cultural Revolution and its horrors in suppressing truth and inquiry. The book even mentions it near the start in case you were to miss it. In that context the suicides are probably direct analogies for those who killed themselves in despair during that time.
> It's really a breath of fresh air compared to a lot of sci-fi that makes humans out to be idiots or malevolent.
Did we read the same book? A huge portion was devoted to the cultural revolution, and it definitely made humans look pretty "malevolent" there. I don't think the book really tries to be optimistic, just realistic, which means it calls out a lot of good and bad.
It's been a while since I read it, but I think the cultural revolution served as character development and how the trauma effected some of the characters in the story. It also served as an analogy for suppressing scientific research. It's something that has been overcome and is (somewhat) overcome in the rest of the book and the subsequent novels from the Remembrance of Earth's Past trilogy.
It's not that people are all good, but they are serious, as are the governments involved. It might be more obvious from books 2 and 3.
Compare that to something like "Don't look up" (humans stupid) or "Avatar" (human bad)
Full back to the office? I am experiencing it right now and honestly hate it. After work in quiet room alone for couple years I am forced to sit with another 11 individuals in open office. My mental state is really bad. There is only one solution - find new job. I even don’t care anymore about my stocks vesting in autumn.
Interesting. Google and USPS are among the most trusted organizations in the US. They also both have a reputation for being good to work at for different socioeconomic classes. The former has some rate of people killing themselves and the latter has some rate of people killing others to the degree that they're now slang for flipping your shit.
Why not? They've pretty much only provided great products to the average consumer. Google and Amazon have a great positive direct impact on most Americans' lives. Here's a report from direct surveys: https://morningconsult.com/most-trusted-brands-2020/
Most people don't really care about a Doubleclick pixel or Amazon gazumping sellers with an Amazon Basics thing. For many, the latter is a positive thing and a trusted brand.
This is because there was a string of postal-worker incidents in the 80s or 90s (I forget) which grabbed the nation's attention. I don't think USPS actually has a murder problem.
There are many issues regarding mental health, so speculation is that. Speculation. There is a a correlation that it's the second Google employee to die by sucide. That's not clickbait, just journalism.
Readit News
Folks dealing with mental health issues might end their lives for a variety of factors. This is very sad to hear, but the headline (and article) that attempts to connect an employer to a person's death without any evidence is unfair.
Note: I do not work for Google.
Why does this indicate anything other than the fact that he chose a building he’s familiar with and to which he had access?
What if their personal life was not in good shape and they wanted someone to find them?
There is no basis at this point for speculation that Google was a primary causal factor.
so it is misleading to say he “jumped” if it ends up being an accidental fall.
there’s plenty of people who climb ledges in NYC to take photos at night, so would not be surprised if this ends up being entirely accidental as a result of trying to take photos
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EDIT: I added "statistically" in the last sentence to clarify my intended meaning.
The factors that play into suicide are numerous, and there is no apparent reason that Google was a causal factor.
This is also not to say that they aren’t, but to point out that speculation about this has zero standing.
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Google says that Alphabet had 190,234 employees in 2022. The annual age-adjusted suicide rate is 13.42 per 100,000 individuals. Males die by suicide 3.5 times more often than females. A real actuary (I wish I had known that was a profession!) could work the numbers better than I, but I don't think this is out of line on a statistical level, sad as it is to say.
I think the difference is obvious.
It's total clickbait and highlights the shameful narrative on HN and Reddit about "Mmm, Google bad." A guy just died and people are trying to push their own narrative without any sort of validity. Shameful and disgusting.
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He left behind his wife and two children. His name was Dave Brackman.
I know the incident could be unrelated but it is also a good reminder the human cost of decisions. The fed taking decisions for the economy, companies taking decisions to maximize shareholder value and ceo pay, etc. all have huge impact on people’s lives, some of it is visible, while some of it is not.
This was nearly midnight at an outdoor terrace in the office. I guess I don’t see how anyone can say he “jumped” on purpose yet when at some point he must’ve been hanging which could have been a result of tripping on something.
You pan the article for going beyond the facts we know at this time and then come up with your own unfounded speculation…
Wouldn't having a barrier low enough someone can trip and fall over be a recipe for a lawsuit? I imagine the barrier was high enough planting hands would be the natural way for most people to get on top or over.
This is one of my "I could have died" moments.
Not trying to be a jerk here, but this is not a good reminder of any of those things you listed. We have literally 0.0 reason to think that any of those were factors.
Edit: Upon further reading, how do we know exactly they jumped if there's no video evidence? Was it an accident? The article does not state enough.
Be cautious who you cede your identity to, but it's OK to be genuinely excited about some career outcomes.
The cause likely has to do with Google and the location given that this is the second suicide from the same company and location.
I loved that series of books and this highlights why I like it so much. It's an "optimistic" view of humanity. People are serious in the book so its entirely plausible that physicists are so distraught at the futility of their efforts to understand the universe that they end their life if the universe is broken. And government officials are worried and dig into the issue. The book follows that theme as humanity puts forward a strong centralized effort to combat a threat. Human's aren't just a joke or a stepping stone. It's really a breath of fresh air compared to a lot of sci-fi that makes humans out to be idiots or malevolent. I don't know if it has to do with the book being from a Chinese author
The "knowledge being suppressed by semi-omnipotent aliens" plot is a fairly heavy analogy with the Cultural Revolution and its horrors in suppressing truth and inquiry. The book even mentions it near the start in case you were to miss it. In that context the suicides are probably direct analogies for those who killed themselves in despair during that time.
Did we read the same book? A huge portion was devoted to the cultural revolution, and it definitely made humans look pretty "malevolent" there. I don't think the book really tries to be optimistic, just realistic, which means it calls out a lot of good and bad.
It's not that people are all good, but they are serious, as are the governments involved. It might be more obvious from books 2 and 3.
Compare that to something like "Don't look up" (humans stupid) or "Avatar" (human bad)
https://noises.online/
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I wonder what the difference is.
Most people don't really care about a Doubleclick pixel or Amazon gazumping sellers with an Amazon Basics thing. For many, the latter is a positive thing and a trusted brand.
This is because there was a string of postal-worker incidents in the 80s or 90s (I forget) which grabbed the nation's attention. I don't think USPS actually has a murder problem.
An ongoing problem, with at least one per decade and more than one for most since the 70s