I do not know exactly what's the link between the two, but I think it might be related to the fact that it's useful for tech workers to be relatively updated about world events, how society function in general, and what's happening lately in the field.
The problem is that doing that will very quickly tell you that modern society fucking sucks. Almost nothing works, everyone hates each other, things that are important get ignored because of greed, and most importantly, there's almost nothing you can do about it.
After a decade working in tech I realised I'm tired of being exposed to these problems. I'd really like to leave the big city and its problems and live in a remote area where I can be closer to nature, and in a small community where I could be more self-sufficient and contribute back in more meaningful ways than I do today.
I'm posting this in HN because I have noticed that this is not exclusive to me. It seems that getting burned out of modern society is quite common among people who worked in tech for a long time, so I was wondering if someone here had experience in making this jump and leaving the big city to live a simpler life next to nature. Did it help you? What led you to do it and how do you feel about it today?
Stop watching so much news, dude. Everything has always been terrible. The reality is, you have more access to more information than ever before in human history, and it's all pushed by companies trying to suck you in with more engagement, largely by inducing excessive emotional reaction to things outside of your control (and in many ways, things that have no actual bearing on your life)
Maybe I'm spoiled for parks in Philadelphia, but it shouldn't be that hard to get to nature from any city. I also go on urban hikes to clear my head.
The problems you describe won't be solved by a move to a small village. You need to ween yourself off the news you read. I'm not suggesting becoming a luddite, but stop gorging.
By far, the mid-sized city is the best of both worlds.
When I lived in LA, I absolutely felt like I was living in a dystopian parody of a progressive city. When I lived in small towns, I absolutely was annoyed that everyone knew my relatives and thought we were friends or something because of that. Zero anonymity.
But Minneapolis has historically been good, though it's changed a lot since George Floyd. Now we live in a smallish suburb and get all the amenities without the claustrophobic small town bullshit.
OP, just try moving to a distant suburb, and embrace the wisdom of middle age.
A smallish city will provide 90+% of what you'd get out of a big city without the dystopian backdrop.
I grew up in a small town, moved to a big city, then moved to a smaller city during COVID, with the intent of it being temporary until things go back to normal, and now I don't want to go back. Just as much to do, with less traffic, lower cost, and it feels a lot safer to walk around.
I bought a pretty damn big house (comparative to what I had in the Bay Area). I'm taking more vacations. The people are nicer than SF Bay Area, you can go places (restaurants on a weekend, for example!) without having to wait in long lines or park a million miles away. You can get tickets to concerts without having to be the FIRST person on Ticketmaster the moment they become available. You can get to nature a lot faster (I went skiing a couple months ago and it was bonkers how there were no lines or waiting for anything). Everything just feels easier, like you get to enjoy everything 20% more than you can in a metropolis where everything feels like a hassle and you've got people crawling on you like roaches.
This is something to be very careful about. If you aren't religious -- or, actually, if you aren't evangelical protestant or maybe in some places catholic -- there are many, many rural communities where you will be a de facto outsider. There are also many rural communities where this isn't true. You just have to be aware of this when deciding where to move.
In the end, I feel our community has embraced us. I coach a girl's field sport that now 50% of all school age girls participate in. When we "go to town" everyone knows me and calls me coach. I feel I have been able to show a small rural community that atheist, liberal, immigrants are not here to destroy America as many suspected we might. They have showed me conservatives can act with compassion and stunningly (to me at least) that many laws that make perfect sense in a city make absolutely no sense in the country.
They all think they will move to rural community to live simpler, more selfsufficient life among other people, casualy share tips on permaculture with their neighbors and what not.
You might get lucky to find similar minded people, but at the end newcomers are just those ridiculus city folks that come to the town, talking weird stuff, while local hold blue colar jobs in nearby town or hustling income as helping hands whenever they can. Most people do not chose rural places, they just don't have any other choice. Also rural poverty is a thing.
But then I lived most of my life in big cities, and for me moving in a rural community a few steps from the forest where I can walk between two meetings definitely solved many problems. Being free of all the stress of city life and connecting to nature really helped with emotional work and gaining perspective. I don't regret my 20's but I'm glad I found calm and happiness. Maybe in a few years I will have sufficiently recharged to be able to move back in the city.
Also I don't know about Philadelphia but in most cities I lived parks were small and sterile and real nature was not easily accessible.
Oh yes, Philadelphia's got parks: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/travel/article/philadelph...
Want to get lost in nature? Fairmount Park goes on and on. You can drive about an hour to the Poconos if you want even better isolation in nature.
We've got a whole pile of National Parks in the city, too. Obviously not the scale of Yellowstone, Yosemite et al, but usually very well maintained, and stocked with National Park Rangers, who, no matter the national park I've been in, are hands down some of the best human beings I've interacted with.
There are definitely the more small/sterile neighborhood parks like you described, but the city has also had five public squares designed into its original 17th century plan, and they've somehow survived into the 21st century, mostly for the better. And then there's the Benjamin Franklin Parkway, cutting a 45 degree slice through the grid system for a tree-lined, walkable space running between the world class Philadelphia Museum of Art and our second-empire-style City Hall, which probably only still exists because in the early 20th century, the city ran out of money before they could demolish it.
I used to live in Downingtown, three minutes' walk from the train, and about 30 seconds walk from a sprawling rails-to-trails park system organized around the local creek. There were definitely benefits to that (didn't have to wear high-viz during hunting season) but in my situation, I came to prefer a more urban home base. It's funny because we initially moved there from central PA, and it felt kind of cute and even a little bit hip. Lived in Philly proper for a few years before coming back to our Downingtown house for a couple years. Now, it felt like I was in the sticks, man. Like, I knew what "the middle of nowhere" really was, and this wasn't it, but it still felt like I was on the edge of civilization by comparison, and not necessarily in a way I appreciated. Now we're back in the city.
Glad you've got a good situation, and context from previous, very-different situations too! Ultimately, the key is to adapt to your surroundings and make the most of what you've got. And if you're fortunate enough to have the option to change things up, well that's just a bonus.
Anonymous, sure. But how can anyone be self sufficient in a city? Do you have a large garden? Rainwater tanks? The tools and workspace to do your own plumbing, construction? Do you have solar panels and batteries?
If the utilities all shut down and the grocery stores all closed, everyone in a city would die or flee. It is impossible to be self-sufficient in a city.
Glad you asked! Let's go over your questions.
>Do you have a large garden? Rainwater tanks?
I've got space on my roofs for a garden - I own a three story building that has 100% lot coverage (something you can still afford to buy in Philadelphia) I could easily install rainwater tanks indoors (since our rainspouts travel inside our house to drain into the sewer line) or outdoors - but I walk to the produce merchant and use one of the longest-operating municipal water supplies in the country. Currently we just have herbs and cherry tomatoes in our roof garden.
>The tools and workspace to do your own plumbing, construction?
As a matter of fact yes. This is the third home I've owned. First one was built in 1905 in the suburbs and was a gut job. Everyone should have a circular saw and an 18v cordless drill, but I've also got plumbing supplies and electrical supplies. We hired contractors for this place because it was a complete gut job (down to three walls, and we had to install steel structure) but we generally don't have to call contractors unless we're short on time. Our second house was built in the 90s and didn't need much work, but since we learned on our first house, we updated the floors (we have tools for tiling too) and cabinets - largely pre-built. We tried something more raw on the first home, and it nearly caused my wife and I to divorce. Why bother when mass manufacture has solved the problem? Even still, I do tend to build my own desks/shelves.
And, being in a city designed for horses, if I'm missing tools, I walk to the hardware store. I've got a van, if I need bigger things than I can carry. And if I didn't have a van, I could take transit (or a taxi or rideshare) to the big box store, rent a truck from Home Depot, and use that to transport big goods.
>Do you have solar panels and batteries?
I've got a long flat roof, and a neighbor who sells solar. We've opted instead for a green roof, but that's sort of a phase three thing for the building. Talking about self-sufficiency while ignoring the benefits of society, then simultaneously crowing about solar panels seems a little bit like moving the goalposts in terms of what counts as self-sufficient.
>If the utilities all shut down and the grocery stores all closed, everyone in a city would die or flee.
That's a big if for a city, but a reality in rural communities. In my lifetime, towns in my country have been abandoned. WalMart moves in, and Main Street is boarded up in a matter of years. Industry gets offshored, and people who can afford to will flee. "Ghost towns" are an attraction across America.
The closest thing to a ghost city in my country was Detroit in the early 2000s. Even cities destroyed in wars are rebuilt more often than they aren't.
>It is impossible to be self-sufficient in a city.
Context matters. If you want to talk about bronze age self-sufficiency, I'm sure it's a great thought experiment. There's an efficiency modifier to self-sufficiency in urban environments, and as evidenced by placed occupied for multiple millennia such as London, Constantinople, Beijing, or even cities like Berlin and Baghdad and Cairo, even when things get real bad, cities are much more likely to recover.
Do you even know that they track your gait? and face? wherever you go?
(of course they don't even need to since you carry a tracking device in your pocket)
In terms of actual dependence, I feel equally self-sufficient in both places. Rural people massively under-estimate their dependence on global economic systems and particularly three things. First, the regular weekly flow of gasoline and diesel and various finished goods. Second, the regular monthly flow of social security checks. Third, tax dollars from major metros to fund schools. At least where I lived our school system was almost completely funded by state tax dollars that were re-appropriated from suburban and urban districts; the local tax base accounted to something like something like one tenth of the district's education budget.) These dependencies exist in cities as well, of course, but there doesn't seem to be any confusion about that fact in cities.
I come from a small town in India. I can't speak for everyone, but I don't think these things are any better in rural parts of the world. In fact, they could be worse. Yes, life is simpler and the community aspect is good. But what you mention are fundamentally human problems. Greed will show up on the door as soon as ancestral property gets mentioned. It doesn't take long for a small issue to turn into a verbal clash. The things that people believe in could be borderline disturbing.
On the plus side, I like the general slowness of everyday life. I like how things like productivity and using time well are alien there. I don't deny pursuing a simpler life might work for you, but I don't think it's the magic pill. Smartphones and Internet have created unique problems, but they still stem from human nature.
Additionally, I don't see why pursuing a simpler life isn't possible, to a good extent, without uprooting your life. Stop watching the news. Go out in the park, and "waste" 1-2 precious hours just admiring the birds and trees. Meditate. Rather than trying to fix the environment, prfioritize how to view your life better. I highly recommend reading books for this.
Life is slower, there is more of an emphasis on community, the cost of living is lower, the schools are solid, there is far less crime and homelessness, and you can commute to the urban amenities as needed.
Does it have EVERYTHING an large urban area provides, obviously not, but life goes on just fine without those things. What's more important to me? A boxing gym in walking distance or being able to pay my house off in less than ten years?
Moved from London (9m pop) to suburban North Leeds (800,000-1m pop), much better. Still get the semi-anonymity of a city, and the things that I enjoy about them (varied food to eat out, markets, theatre, cinema, bowling etc), but I'm also 5 minutes from national parks, waterfalls etc.
The beauty about Leeds in the UK is as soon as you go North, there is basically nothing major until you hit Scotland. So you can be away from people very very quickly which is rare in the UK, whilst also not cutting yourself off from the world.
It's also ace as the city has a great identity and community. The running clubs are full of the most varied and grounded people, from all walks of life, that I have ever met. We do a lot of fell racing in the Yorkshire Dales in all elements. The community spirit found around running the rain, up hills, and bonding over cake, local beer and Yorkshire tea is amazing and reminds you of how great most humans are.
There is also great civic pride in local food, drink, culture. There are incredibly accessible and affordable spas for weekend breaks to sauna and massage (Rudding Park) within a 20 minute drive, that aren't booked out months in advance or full of instagrammers or full of London city bankers. Just locals having a laugh.
OP, I get the feeling, I almost did the same. But do not go remote for these reasons. Move somewhere smaller maybe (smaller cities have greater identity and community than large mega-cities without the drawback of towns or hamlets), but make sure you assess the world through the people you talk to and interact with, not the internet or news. Otherwise you will get way more depressed.
Happiness is only real when shared.
My personal experience is that, despite London indeed having an impressive offer in terms of culture, entertainment, food, social life, etc. it's an illusion. Most people do home -> work -> home, with the exception of the local pub. Even meeting with friends which are not work colleagues is complicated, usually involving 1 hour commuting each way.
So in London the choice is amazing, but I enjoyed almost none of it. In Newcastle the offer is more reduced, but I do find I can enjoy it _all_.
Also I'm closer to nature (where I live), I can afford a big house and I actually _know_ my neighbours.
...a guy I knew growing up gave me this advice "Find somewhere you want to live and figure out how to make a living there." Boring, simple, evident but it took 20 years to sink in.
Do you have time to do your job and to care for cows, horses and chicken? And also work in the garden?
Every small farmer I know has at least one member of the family working at least one regular job, usually for benefits, to make ends meet.
However, "leave society behind" no longer involves locality. If you come out to the sticks and still obsessively doomscroll the news, you will not reduce your stress much. Conversely, if you resolutely ignore the distressing noise around you, you might find contentment in your city, still.
When we had kids, I knew we would have to move despite loving the city. My personal favorite was Philly. Walkable and no need for a car. Any type of food was usually an easy walk away. Close second was SF for the nightlife and ability to choose your weather by getting in the car for an hour or two.
I feel in the end it was a fantastic move. We sold our row house in philly and purchased a working ranch, sent our kids to a private school, and converted a pasture into an athletic field with the proceeds.
The downside if there is one is that we would be hard pressed to replicate what we have now and my wife has had to turn opportunities down in southern California as the equivalent to what we have now would be a home for at least 10 million.
I guess there might be a political downside in that I am a left of center and most people in my community are right of center. However, noone has been isolating. There are some blow hards, but fir the most part people dont ask me about my politics and I dont ask about theirs and we can get along fine.
I think it helps that I am a youth coach with a nice personal field and I coach 50 percent of the girls in our community in some capacity.
Feel free to ask me questions.
Got out just in time. It's really gone downhill in the past few years.
Short version: now we are living in Berlin again ;)
Long version: we loved and enjoyed the proximity to nature, the mountains,the quiet and small world in a village... But in the end that was the problem as well - small villages are often conservative, so we were the ones with the funny cloth, totally different worldviews and we felt most of the time out of place. It was hard to find like minded friends there (though I know, it is very important to be in touch with all kind of views, ideas and ways of live, and I enjoy that as well, but one also needs some friends around whom surf the same wave) and there is simply a lot less to do than in s city - cultural events, night live, events, etc. pp. Is all far away. While you can do a lot of outdoor sports and nature relayed things, a lot of social interaction based events are missing. For us to much... We decided to move back to the city, with all the wonderful bussing and hustling - and got as a camper van, which we know use some month of the year, to fill up out longing for remote and quiet places in nature.
PS: maybe the 1.5 years weren't enough to get integrated into a village social group, so maybe it changes after a longer stay
A bit like trying to blend into japan - you will ALWAYS be the gaijin no matter how perfect you speak the language of follow the traditions.
What others said about rural being just as cynicism-inducing is very true, first off. If you're genuinely reclusive you'll be fine but if you're social by nature and are seeking a better type of people, you'll be disappointed.
But is it better? Oh hells yah. A flock of Cedar Waxwings came through our yard last week, they were there for about half an hour picking over our trees (end of winter here) and a couple were right outside my window for a few.
The above will never happen to you in a city, so if that's the sort of thing that fuels you, you want to be here. If you want to get out of your car at night and hear a stillness you didn't realize existed, and hear packs of coyotes other nights and learn to really hate deer because they're actually not that cute and they eat all your nice plants...
It's great man. But it's very much what you make it, and you will largely make it that way alone. I scored the jackpot and got a wife who grew up out here so I had a partner at home from day one - makes a big difference.