If you can be restored from simply doing a different task, then its not real burnout.
As someone who has undergone real burnout from burning the candle at both ends for to long, I wish it was this simple. Its sometimes called a mental or nervous breakdown, and the only real solution is to disconnect from everything you can (hard to disconnect from kids), and just try to get back to a stable place. For me that was living in a Costa Rica for 3 months with no TV and spotty slow internet. The only thing you can do is sit on the veranda and relax.
"Sorry, but that's not real burnout. If you're unable to recover at all then you've experienced real burnout."
I hope you see where this eventually leads, because it's a common pattern when discussing mental health topics. There is a single instance of the "true" thing and no one else feels justified in taking care of themselves because someone else has it worse. I'm sorry that you had burnout, but there are better ontologies of burnout than drawing the line around your experience as "real".
I mean, if one guy is talking about a broken leg, and a second comes by and says "ah yeah, I scraped my knee once too, I had to use a band-aid in order to solve it," I think it's entirely valid to say that those are not comparable experiences. I feel that you are arguing they are different degrees of the same thing. That may be true, but it's true in such a thin sense that it doesn't really contribute to a conversation.
Nah, GP is right. There is feeling burned out on something specific and being well and truly burned out. The former can be shrugged off with tricks, the latter feels like being dead inside until you rest for long enough to reset.
You are being needlessly sensitive to the parent post.
The parent is making a distinct difference between what the industry typically refers to as "burnout" and what actual, physical, burnout is. As someone who has gone through phases of burnout and currently working through yet another one in my career I can attest the parent's definition IS the correct one.
You are not burned out when you are bored at work. You are burned out when you are so tired of doing something that you cannot bring yourself to not only do it, but anything else. When you need drugs to get through the day. It's a combination of depression/anxiety/fear of failure that manifests as what I can only describe as a feeling of wanting to disconnect from everything forever and sleep. The only solution is to disconnect for a long time. I, for example, have not programmed as a hobby in almost half a decade. It's the only way I can stave off repeated bouts of severe life crippling burnout.
Be far less sensitive. Also, perhaps you should try to experience burnout before a needlessly pedantic out-of-nowhere virtue signal.
OP never made this claim. The title is "When feeling worn out, rotate", not "When feeling crippling, life-draining burnout, rotate". You shouldn't dismiss this just because it doesn't solve the worst possible case. The whole value of this suggestion is that it's something reasonably helpful that you can do in order to avoid ending up totally burned out.
And honestly if you're fully burned out, it's still helpful to have suggestions like this that might make things slightly better - most people aren't able to go to Costa Rica for three months and relax, so suggesting that's the only cure to burnout is just telling a lot of people that they're doomed forever because they can't take a tropical vacation.
I’m about 10 months into a burnout break, and I’m only just starting to feel like I have my feet back under me.
Burnout is very real and very different from the notion of “worn out” described in the piece. I started to realize this more deeply when I noticed that there was just about nothing that I could interest myself in, even the most tantalizing personal project ideas (some might note this sounds like depression, and I agree. I’ve dealt with varying levels of depression for most of my life, but burnout became a multiplying factor).
I think if more folks realized how different they are, they would take burnout more seriously and take more steps to avoid it.
My 2c: I realized (quite late in life) that when there's just about nothing that I can interest myself in, it's because I actually _need to do nothing_.
Doing nothing is healthy and is a great way to regain health.
(Feeling guilty about it or worrying about "what I should be doing" will prevent it from restoring us, though. It only works if we accept our health needs.)
> If you can be restored from simply doing a different task, then its not real burnout.
> the only real solution is to disconnect
So I was trying to deal with my dad's tragical slide into depression by convincing him that the monsters he's fighting aren't "real".
And he asked me a question bluntly one day (in my own native tongue, where it sounded heavier).
"What is real to you? Is what you experience real and what I experience not real?"
The problem with defining this sort of reality from a personal view point is that someone's biggest problem in their life so far might be the 100% on their scale.
It sure was in my case, my burn out was showing up in my weight (was 54kg at 6'2), while my dad ended up ending his life over work stress. And I still think my situation was worse than his, but just that I was still bouncy when I hit rock bottom.
So what someone shares as a real problem and a solution might work for them and a million others (because that's a 1 in an eight million shot), which makes it totally real for them.
Also If something works for you, sharing it doubles its effectiveness - socially and personally.
It's the opposite for me. If disconnecting and taking a break provides relief, the problem was overwork/exhaustion/fatigue and not "burnout". Burnout is something deeper that and more closely related to depression, and no amount of time off will fix it if you just end up coming back to the same environment.
Strangely enough, the fix to burnout can be finding different/more engaging work to help overcome the cynicism and sense of hopelessness.
The post doesn’t actually mention burnout at all, it is just tagged with the word for some reason.
I don’t think I have seen “real burnout” as you call it. If it is so debilitating, I guess it must be pretty rare, or this would be causing a massive social and economic disturbance. It seems lots of people are feeling worn out nowadays, so this article seems like it could be useful.
> and the only real solution is to disconnect from everything you can
Yes. Offline is the new peace of mind. Trouble is, the mind needs something to work at/solve and it's forever trying to solve some puzzle. People regard reading as switching off, but reading, for me, is an active pursuit, rather than passive. I read to become a better version of myself, so yeah: the only real solution to burnout is literally to meditate in a cave sans smartphone or book.
I think I’m falling into the trap of looking at my capacity only in terms of each day. Ie if I get a good night’s sleep I erroneously feel like I should be able to sustain my (probably unsustainable) momentum. When I try to relax, I feel like I’m wasting time if I do it for too long. Does anyone have any advice for this?
Start reframing the value proposition of relaxing.
In my mental model, I look at relaxation/disconnection like sleep.
You can behave as if it’s not important for awhile, but eventually it will catch up.
Personally, since I couldn’t see the burnout around the corner, I didn’t have the internal self talk to remind myself that relaxation is not just a waste of time.
I’m now working on baking this into my every day life by building habits around it. For me, that looks like:
- Mindfulness practice in the morning (using the “Waking Up” app, which has solidified the concepts for me in a way that no other app ever had)
- Regular walks in nature
- Cannabis + music listening sessions
But I can’t stress the value of mindfulness enough. For me it has become a tool to check in with myself more often and to really notice how things are going instead of just getting carried along by the currents of each day. And note this is not the same thing as some common forms of focus/concentration-based “clear your mind” meditation practices.
Shift your focus to reliability, not efficiency. It forces you to recognize when you've done enough, and it makes it OK to down-prioritize things to ensure you deliver on what's more important.
I'm a lot like you in that sense. Here's what's working for me (still learning):
> I get a good night’s sleep I erroneously feel like I should be able to sustain my (probably unsustainable) momentum
Try to have patience.
When we see an improvement we get attached to it. This happens when losing weight, sleeping more, etc. Changing habits, even slightly, always takes time.
If, it seems to be evolving in the direction you desire in the long-term, you're good. Extrapolating from one or a few data points won't give good predictions.
> When I try to relax, I feel like I’m wasting time if I do it for too long.
Trust yourself.
Do you feel you're wasting time after a few hours, days, or months? If you relax enough, the need to do stuff usually comes back to you on its own. No need to force it via guilt or worry.
If you objectively can't relax as much as you'd like to, then remind yourself _why_ you're doing the things you do. You'll probably have great reasons to do so —making the most of some opportunity, doing it for your loved ones, whatever.
It could also be you needed to avoid relaxing some time in the past and now you have more space to relax but haven't re-analyzed your current situation properly and are not aware not-relaxing is not adequate strategy now, according to your desires and objectives.
Well, that's all very well for those who can afford to vacation in Costa Rica for 3 months, but most of us have to actually earn money to survive, and have to work most days of the year to do so.
Of course, the conclusion this should lead to is that we have yet another very good reason why a modern healthy country should be providing Universal Basic Income.
Ah yes, as my uncle used to say while I was labouring for him in summer holidays. "A change is as good as a rest, let's move those <heavy objects> instead". He paid well though. Happy days.
I bet this doesn't work for everyone but it works for some people, and I think I am in that category.
A bunch of years ago, I did a part time MBA, including weekend and night classes. So I remember sitting at my desk at the office and thinking "cool, very soon I get to stop working and head to class" and then other times thinking "cool, there's no class for a few days, I get to focus on just work!"
The context switch was refreshing and something to look forward to, in both directions.
Something that's great about part time programs is that everyone you're in school with is in the same boat - they already have generally decent careers but are ambitious and capable enough to make the investment in furthering themselves (or pivoting) - that's a great group. The full-time MBAs kinda felt like "kids" in comparison - I don't mean that as a put down, they were capable and driven in their own way, I just think the part timers are special in that way.
Something that worked for me - I didn't feel the urge to graduate quickly (would be different if I needed the degree to pivot roles) so I graduated in 5 years whereas others did it in 2. This had multiple benefits: I got to focus more on each class w/o burning out, and I got to meet WAY more people and do many more social things - ski trips, study abroad, etc.
I also took the strategy of trying to learn what I don't know. My background is in engineering/tech/economics, so I made sure to not take any "Managing IT" type classes and to test out of as much Econ as possible. Instead, I focused on things I didn't know anything about (entrepreneurship, marketing, competitive strategy etc.) All of that served me well.
Mainly, the MBA is social and fun. A bit after I graduated, I opted for an in person graduate program in Data Science and promptly bailed. The social element was so boring that there was no reason to be traveling to campus - was missing out nothing compared to studying at home. But the MBA, the material is good but I found the social/personal evolution just as if not more valuable.
Happy to answer anything else. What school are you going to?
We need variety in our daily work tasks, otherwise it can become tedious. I have a startup, so as a founder I need to do many different things. It can be a challenge to decide what to work on since everything is 'urgent' (code new feature, fix bugs, write documentation, test or benchmark, work on marketing/sales, get feedback from customers, etc.).
I devised a system where I just roll the dice each morning to see what I will focus on for that day (each area is assigned a number). That way I don't just do the 'fun stuff' and neglect the unpleasant tasks for too long. The random nature of deciding adds some variety to my work week.
Sometimes, composing/playing music renovates and refreshes me after too much coding.
Sometimes, after a few consecutive days (or weeks) of hard work (like learning new frameworks while trying to deliver features at "normal" speed) I'm completely unable to play or compose music. My brain just won't work at all.
In these cases, sometimes I cannot even read light fantasy or cook basic meals.
One thing is to be bored of or frustrated with something (which is important too — we don't live to work —, but this is a separate topic), and another completely different thing is repeatedly going over what your bodily and/or mental health can take, for weeks or months on end.
I think rotating is good advice, but it works more on motivation than exhaustion.
Rotating tasks is pretty much necessary for me. With executive issues, my focus is highly variable. Sometimes I need to switch to a lower effort (and/or more rewarding) task to recharge.
This affects everyone to some degree or another. It’s just an order of magnitude worse for me.
The military has known this, hence the frequent moves (permanent change of station or PCS). People need a change of scenery, a chance to learn new skills, and learn from new people. It’s also, as the article mentions, a good cure for feeling worn out in a particular role.
I love this article because it is very succinct. "Here's an analogous problem. Here's how it might apply to parenting. Here's how it might apply to work."
I love that it just shares an idea. It doesn't spend pages trying to qualify every nuance and detail and counter-argument of the idea.
Regrettably (or maybe it's helpful), this will always lead to people nitpicking the analogy or idea apart, based on their personal interpretation of all those undefined details.
Readit News
As someone who has undergone real burnout from burning the candle at both ends for to long, I wish it was this simple. Its sometimes called a mental or nervous breakdown, and the only real solution is to disconnect from everything you can (hard to disconnect from kids), and just try to get back to a stable place. For me that was living in a Costa Rica for 3 months with no TV and spotty slow internet. The only thing you can do is sit on the veranda and relax.
I hope you see where this eventually leads, because it's a common pattern when discussing mental health topics. There is a single instance of the "true" thing and no one else feels justified in taking care of themselves because someone else has it worse. I'm sorry that you had burnout, but there are better ontologies of burnout than drawing the line around your experience as "real".
The parent is making a distinct difference between what the industry typically refers to as "burnout" and what actual, physical, burnout is. As someone who has gone through phases of burnout and currently working through yet another one in my career I can attest the parent's definition IS the correct one.
You are not burned out when you are bored at work. You are burned out when you are so tired of doing something that you cannot bring yourself to not only do it, but anything else. When you need drugs to get through the day. It's a combination of depression/anxiety/fear of failure that manifests as what I can only describe as a feeling of wanting to disconnect from everything forever and sleep. The only solution is to disconnect for a long time. I, for example, have not programmed as a hobby in almost half a decade. It's the only way I can stave off repeated bouts of severe life crippling burnout.
Be far less sensitive. Also, perhaps you should try to experience burnout before a needlessly pedantic out-of-nowhere virtue signal.
And honestly if you're fully burned out, it's still helpful to have suggestions like this that might make things slightly better - most people aren't able to go to Costa Rica for three months and relax, so suggesting that's the only cure to burnout is just telling a lot of people that they're doomed forever because they can't take a tropical vacation.
Burnout is very real and very different from the notion of “worn out” described in the piece. I started to realize this more deeply when I noticed that there was just about nothing that I could interest myself in, even the most tantalizing personal project ideas (some might note this sounds like depression, and I agree. I’ve dealt with varying levels of depression for most of my life, but burnout became a multiplying factor).
I think if more folks realized how different they are, they would take burnout more seriously and take more steps to avoid it.
I know I would have.
Doing nothing is healthy and is a great way to regain health.
(Feeling guilty about it or worrying about "what I should be doing" will prevent it from restoring us, though. It only works if we accept our health needs.)
> the only real solution is to disconnect
So I was trying to deal with my dad's tragical slide into depression by convincing him that the monsters he's fighting aren't "real".
And he asked me a question bluntly one day (in my own native tongue, where it sounded heavier).
"What is real to you? Is what you experience real and what I experience not real?"
The problem with defining this sort of reality from a personal view point is that someone's biggest problem in their life so far might be the 100% on their scale.
It sure was in my case, my burn out was showing up in my weight (was 54kg at 6'2), while my dad ended up ending his life over work stress. And I still think my situation was worse than his, but just that I was still bouncy when I hit rock bottom.
So what someone shares as a real problem and a solution might work for them and a million others (because that's a 1 in an eight million shot), which makes it totally real for them.
Also If something works for you, sharing it doubles its effectiveness - socially and personally.
Strangely enough, the fix to burnout can be finding different/more engaging work to help overcome the cynicism and sense of hopelessness.
I don’t think I have seen “real burnout” as you call it. If it is so debilitating, I guess it must be pretty rare, or this would be causing a massive social and economic disturbance. It seems lots of people are feeling worn out nowadays, so this article seems like it could be useful.
Yes. Offline is the new peace of mind. Trouble is, the mind needs something to work at/solve and it's forever trying to solve some puzzle. People regard reading as switching off, but reading, for me, is an active pursuit, rather than passive. I read to become a better version of myself, so yeah: the only real solution to burnout is literally to meditate in a cave sans smartphone or book.
In my mental model, I look at relaxation/disconnection like sleep.
You can behave as if it’s not important for awhile, but eventually it will catch up.
Personally, since I couldn’t see the burnout around the corner, I didn’t have the internal self talk to remind myself that relaxation is not just a waste of time.
I’m now working on baking this into my every day life by building habits around it. For me, that looks like:
- Mindfulness practice in the morning (using the “Waking Up” app, which has solidified the concepts for me in a way that no other app ever had)
- Regular walks in nature
- Cannabis + music listening sessions
But I can’t stress the value of mindfulness enough. For me it has become a tool to check in with myself more often and to really notice how things are going instead of just getting carried along by the currents of each day. And note this is not the same thing as some common forms of focus/concentration-based “clear your mind” meditation practices.
> I get a good night’s sleep I erroneously feel like I should be able to sustain my (probably unsustainable) momentum
Try to have patience.
When we see an improvement we get attached to it. This happens when losing weight, sleeping more, etc. Changing habits, even slightly, always takes time.
If, it seems to be evolving in the direction you desire in the long-term, you're good. Extrapolating from one or a few data points won't give good predictions.
> When I try to relax, I feel like I’m wasting time if I do it for too long.
Trust yourself.
Do you feel you're wasting time after a few hours, days, or months? If you relax enough, the need to do stuff usually comes back to you on its own. No need to force it via guilt or worry.
If you objectively can't relax as much as you'd like to, then remind yourself _why_ you're doing the things you do. You'll probably have great reasons to do so —making the most of some opportunity, doing it for your loved ones, whatever.
It could also be you needed to avoid relaxing some time in the past and now you have more space to relax but haven't re-analyzed your current situation properly and are not aware not-relaxing is not adequate strategy now, according to your desires and objectives.
you can get normal human levels of exhausted without going bonkers unhealthy woeking through it.
OP is a sustainable and healthy tactic
If someone is struggling with motivation one day, there are a number of “get motivated” tricks that may help.
If that person is struggling with motivation due to depression, and has been for awhile, that motivation advice is going to fall flat.
Burnout and being “worn out” or “fatigued” are often very different things, despite the fact that the latter two are symptoms of the former.
Of course, the conclusion this should lead to is that we have yet another very good reason why a modern healthy country should be providing Universal Basic Income.
Deleted Comment
Changing activities and habits is ok but paracetamol. The causes are still there.
A bunch of years ago, I did a part time MBA, including weekend and night classes. So I remember sitting at my desk at the office and thinking "cool, very soon I get to stop working and head to class" and then other times thinking "cool, there's no class for a few days, I get to focus on just work!"
The context switch was refreshing and something to look forward to, in both directions.
Something that's great about part time programs is that everyone you're in school with is in the same boat - they already have generally decent careers but are ambitious and capable enough to make the investment in furthering themselves (or pivoting) - that's a great group. The full-time MBAs kinda felt like "kids" in comparison - I don't mean that as a put down, they were capable and driven in their own way, I just think the part timers are special in that way.
Something that worked for me - I didn't feel the urge to graduate quickly (would be different if I needed the degree to pivot roles) so I graduated in 5 years whereas others did it in 2. This had multiple benefits: I got to focus more on each class w/o burning out, and I got to meet WAY more people and do many more social things - ski trips, study abroad, etc.
I also took the strategy of trying to learn what I don't know. My background is in engineering/tech/economics, so I made sure to not take any "Managing IT" type classes and to test out of as much Econ as possible. Instead, I focused on things I didn't know anything about (entrepreneurship, marketing, competitive strategy etc.) All of that served me well.
Mainly, the MBA is social and fun. A bit after I graduated, I opted for an in person graduate program in Data Science and promptly bailed. The social element was so boring that there was no reason to be traveling to campus - was missing out nothing compared to studying at home. But the MBA, the material is good but I found the social/personal evolution just as if not more valuable.
Happy to answer anything else. What school are you going to?
I devised a system where I just roll the dice each morning to see what I will focus on for that day (each area is assigned a number). That way I don't just do the 'fun stuff' and neglect the unpleasant tasks for too long. The random nature of deciding adds some variety to my work week.
Sometimes, after a few consecutive days (or weeks) of hard work (like learning new frameworks while trying to deliver features at "normal" speed) I'm completely unable to play or compose music. My brain just won't work at all.
In these cases, sometimes I cannot even read light fantasy or cook basic meals.
One thing is to be bored of or frustrated with something (which is important too — we don't live to work —, but this is a separate topic), and another completely different thing is repeatedly going over what your bodily and/or mental health can take, for weeks or months on end.
I think rotating is good advice, but it works more on motivation than exhaustion.
This affects everyone to some degree or another. It’s just an order of magnitude worse for me.
I love that it just shares an idea. It doesn't spend pages trying to qualify every nuance and detail and counter-argument of the idea.
Regrettably (or maybe it's helpful), this will always lead to people nitpicking the analogy or idea apart, based on their personal interpretation of all those undefined details.