This might be the first Ryzen 6800U Linux laptop, which is cool, but it's a bit hard for me to get too excited about it...
* One of the biggest selling points of Ryzen 6000 is the chip's USB4 support, but looks like the Pangolin won't have it. It also only has 1 USB-C port, which is a bit of a headscratcher in 2023. Does it support PD even? (Not mentioned)
* 16:9 FHD display (no brightness specified) - high refresh is nice, but again, weird that it's not 16:10 in 2023 and IMO, QHD would be better for a 15-16" display.
* soldered memory (32GB at least)
* Numpad keyboard. This will be a positive for some, but I'm in the centered keyboard camp
* Only a 70Wh battery and still not so light (1.8kg)
While it's running an older chip, if you're not going to have USB4/TB4, and the points I listed are important, I think the Tuxedo Pulse 15 Gen2 is still a better 15" option atm (5700U chip, but lighter, bigger battery, better (still 16:9) display, Ethernet, SODIMM slots). There are some Ubuntu certified ThinkPads that are an option too (they have Ryzen 6000U chips but also no USB4), although almost all the models are w/ soldered RAM on ThinkPads now, which is a bummer.
If you want USB4 on AMD, the best (Linux friendly) options right now are probably the Asus G14 GA402 or a ThinkPad Z16. The HP EliteBook G9s are an option as well, although you need Linux 6.0+ to fix a broken HP BIOS update (HP support is also aggressively indifferent to Linux users) and I've seen lots of complaints about the fan curve and the SureView displays so I'm hesitant to recommend it...
I’m holding out hope on System76 designing truly custom hardware and we reach the fabled “MacBook of Linux” someday. As of now their Clevo rebadges don’t appeal to me, though their “custom” desktops do.
Star Labs is making what you're looking for with their StarFighter laptop, although you'll be paying MacBook Pro like pricing for it (and delivery would be in March at the earliest): https://us.starlabs.systems/pages/starfighter
I mean, it wouldn't even be hard for them to partner with someone like ASUS, Acer, etc to produce semi-custom hardware.
The strict Clevo-based hardware will always turn me away from buying from them when I can get multiple AMD 6000-based laptops from Asus that run Linux fine (after a wifi-card swap, the MediaTek's they use are useless); and have superior build qualities.
There will never be a MacBook of Linux or Windows unless the OS is optimized as much as MacOS is to the underlying hardware. Windows is optimized to a high degree and still cannot match the standby/resume times or battery life of MacOS, and thats without M1.
Linux is not even in the same ballpark. System76 apply some tweaks but its still Ubuntu and as a desktop OS its lacking in many areas.
It might seem like nitpicking but I'm actually on your side here, as a consumer.
It's been a struggle to find a 1440 AMD laptop, I have one that I'm happy with for travel. (Lenovo Yoga Slim 7 Carbon Gen 6)
I also don't want it to be too big, for travel, so numpad is out for me.
The Slim 7 feels like a toy, but it's actually just very, very light, and made of plastic. It creeks, yes, but it's very, very light. This is more important to me when it's on my back, than being out of metal.
Tuxedo Computers sells the Pulse 15 with a centered keyboard, 1440p 165Hz screen, and AMD CPU+iGPU. Pretty nice laptop, except the integrated microphone is a bit shit.
Agreed on preferring a bright 16:10 display. It might seem minor but that was on of the factors that pushed me over the edge to buy a ThinkPad X1 Nano instead of a Lemur Pro a couple of years ago.
I'm also not into numpads on laptops. Not that they aren't useful sometimes, but the they push the alpha cluster and trackpad off-center which is uncomfortable to type on which is hard to justify with how little I personally need one — a standalone numpad that I pull out of a drawer during tax season or whenever makes a lot more sense. Ultimately I think 15"+ laptops should offer keyboard options with and without numpads.
Personally I'm super happy to see FHD@15" make a return. I have pretty ok eyesight, but QHD@15" is unreadable without fractional scaling (which will probably be usable… right around the same time as Wayland and fusion energy).
I have a 14” QHD laptop (framework) and it’s really awkward without fractional scaling. I don’t know that 20-25% more screen space would really fix that.
16:10? That's a dead format. It was seeing some popularity around ~2006 but quickly died out as 16:9 took over.
21:9 is the popular ultra-widescreen option. 16:9 is the popular regular option. Acting like 16:10 is the direction the industry is going is just bizarre.
I'll give a good faith reply to this, many laptops in recent years have moved to a 16:10 aspect ratio. MacBooks have used it (infamously) since the late 2000s, while brands like Dell have recently shifted (some of) their XPS laptops to 16:10 displays. My understanding is it's become very popular across "macbook like" ultraportables in all the major brands for its greater vertical resolution.
I prefer 16:10 to 16:9 by far. While the difference might feel small, the usability improvement from seeing more lines of code is very noticeable for me.
There has been a very recent (last year or two) mild resurgence in 16:10 in some segments of the market. For example, while the Thinkpad T14 is still 16:9, the T14s, X1 Carbon, some of the P line are 16:10. The most recent XPS 13 and 15 are also 16:10.
No, that would actually be less correct and less clear.
"System76 brings back AMD-only laptop" would be an extremely clear way to phrase the title. I'm not even sure the "only" is even that helpful; it could probably just be "AMD laptop".
I run my 1440p screen at 1080p because my portable monitor is 1080p and I don't want to try and setup different scaling on different screens in X or move to Wayland. I'm happy enough.
It is a 144Hz display, which makes it significantly more interesting than an average 1080p display. 60Hz just feels so stuttery these days.
But, I agree that a higher resolution would be nice, and if I'm being completely honest... I would want OLED. Tons of affordable OLED laptops have come to market over the past year.
Why does 144hz matter to you if you aren't playing games? This is not a gaming machine. You absolutely will not notice the difference for non-gaming tasks between 60hz to 80hz/100hz/120hz/144hz/244hz.
I am a CJK user, and I can definitely say 4K at 200% is much more better than standard 1080p.
Standard 1080p only looks good for English alphabets. Complex Chinese characters like `國` looks blurry(or even s**tty) on that resolution. Reading chinese charaters on a hidpi monitor is really a much better experience.
I have one (the previous one with AMD Ryzen 5700u). I've been using it for work the last 6 months coming from an 2015 macbook. Its been great for developing. The battery lasts pretty well (forgetting my power supply when working from home I got almost 7 hours), its fast (I've done some genetics blast runs which take hours, where those extra cores really help). Its pretty quiet too (you can hear the fan when it spins up, but its very reasonable). Returning to a Mat screen has been nice.
I really like AMD on the notebook. Compared to my 4 year old Oryx pro (intel 8th gen), which had poor battery life (esp when using the Nvidia graphics) and required a reboot initially if I wanted to switch to intel graphics. This one is much nicer, but it won't game nearly as well as one with dedicated graphics.
The first thing I see is a 16x9 screen, think "pass", and close the page. There have to be other LCD panel makers out there. Either their customers don't care and/or the company doesn't care to make a better laptop.
Yah I don't get why these laptop manufactures keep shipping garbage screens. I got a 3:2 2160 x 1440, IPS screen on a $200 tablet a few months ago. My laptop has a 16:9 that looks worse, and has lower resolution despite the machine costing 6x as much.
So, please, its hard to call your product "premium" if its screen is worse than a bottom of the barrel tablet.
>Yah I don't get why these laptop manufactures keep shipping garbage screens.
Because they're cheaper.
>My laptop has a 16:9 that looks worse, and has lower resolution despite the machine costing 6x as much.
Right, so your laptop mfgr spent less money on the screen, charged more money, and got a higher profit margin -> win! This lets their execs get bigger bonuses so they can buy better yachts. What's not to like here?
Not OP but I guess 4:3 or 3:2. Some people prefer those to widescreens, having more vertical space is better
MS Surface Books are 3:2 for example (2256 x 1504 on 13,5" / 2496 x 1664 on 15"), or some Thinkpad X1 models are 4:3 (probably just the Fold?). The Framework laptop is also 3:2 (2256 x 1504 on 13,5")
16:9 demands true full-screen for viewing 16:9 content. 16:10 leaves a little room for toolbars if you just want to maximize a window and look at something.
There's hope that a 4k screen option might exist, but anything between 1080p and 4k will not look good on Linux at this size. Without fractional scaling or funny supersampling tricks, Linux only really looks good at 100% and 200% scaling.
Maybe in time that will change, but that's just how Linux is for now.
that's the same for me. I tend to have "two" windows open at most times and that works well for me on my 15" laptop (ancient by most HN standards). I've looked at the ultrawide and 4:3 screens and I'm good with the current "standard" form factor when I can't get to my 3 monitor setup at home.
I've bought a couple of laptops from System76. They charge outrageous prices and and shipping costs for even the smallest part; other than that, getting parts for their rebadged Clevo machines can be a bit challenging because you often have to order from China, so it takes a while.
since 13months ago, HP sells a elite book G9 for 2k, which have the best combo configuration at, gasp, wallmart for 800... eigth hundred dollars.
same cpu, but PRO version. metal and plastic body. scissor waterproof keyboard. usb c charging (system76 is barrel), 2x sodimm ram slots (system76 is soldered, note thay amd zen3+ pro mighty allow ECC ram in a laptop for the first time! so i want slots), the battery have 18Wh less, but it is also 20pct ligther. and all hardware is fully supported with 5.8+ kernel.
I always try to buy from linux-first-vendors, but I still deal with a librem13 that have sevral keys fail on their keyboard and support is ghosting me. even had to super-glue the hinge latelly. so awful :(
800 seems cheap for an elitebook. Is that the 8x0 model?
I have the older g8. It worked perfectly out of the box on linux since new. Recently, windows started being able to use the webcam, too.
But beware the screen. It's absurdly bad. I'd say it's okish for $800. For 2000, it's a bad joke. Some models only have 6-bit screens (at least those have an excuse for being horrible).
The fan is sometimes noisy, too. It seems like it's somewhat off-balance, ever since it was new.
Last time there was a System76 laptop announcement on HN I said I was going to be in the market for a new laptop in the coming year but wouldn't consider a System76 laptop because of the giant logo on the lid. Some people said the logos on their System76 laptops were stickers which could be removed. I contacted System76 and was told that was no longer the case.
If anyone from System76 is here, I am currently looking for a new laptop and will not be buying a System76 laptop based entirely upon the giant logo on them. I don't want to put a skin, a cover or stickers over my laptop. My preference would be no logo at all but that seems to be impossible. If you are compelled to use me for free advertising post purchase, at least make it somewhat discreet.
On my Darter Pro 8 (recentish, not top-of-the-line) laptop, the branding on the lid isn't one sticker, it's a sticker per character, which I could likely remove and leave smooth black metal.
This Reddit thread seems to agree with me that the stickers can be removed, albeit about a different model:
When I contacted System76 sales last year after others posted their logo was stickers they told me their logo was no longer stickers. Maybe that is only on the upper range but the upper range is what I am interested in.
Readit News
* One of the biggest selling points of Ryzen 6000 is the chip's USB4 support, but looks like the Pangolin won't have it. It also only has 1 USB-C port, which is a bit of a headscratcher in 2023. Does it support PD even? (Not mentioned)
* 16:9 FHD display (no brightness specified) - high refresh is nice, but again, weird that it's not 16:10 in 2023 and IMO, QHD would be better for a 15-16" display.
* soldered memory (32GB at least)
* Numpad keyboard. This will be a positive for some, but I'm in the centered keyboard camp
* Only a 70Wh battery and still not so light (1.8kg)
While it's running an older chip, if you're not going to have USB4/TB4, and the points I listed are important, I think the Tuxedo Pulse 15 Gen2 is still a better 15" option atm (5700U chip, but lighter, bigger battery, better (still 16:9) display, Ethernet, SODIMM slots). There are some Ubuntu certified ThinkPads that are an option too (they have Ryzen 6000U chips but also no USB4), although almost all the models are w/ soldered RAM on ThinkPads now, which is a bummer.
If you want USB4 on AMD, the best (Linux friendly) options right now are probably the Asus G14 GA402 or a ThinkPad Z16. The HP EliteBook G9s are an option as well, although you need Linux 6.0+ to fix a broken HP BIOS update (HP support is also aggressively indifferent to Linux users) and I've seen lots of complaints about the fan curve and the SureView displays so I'm hesitant to recommend it...
The strict Clevo-based hardware will always turn me away from buying from them when I can get multiple AMD 6000-based laptops from Asus that run Linux fine (after a wifi-card swap, the MediaTek's they use are useless); and have superior build qualities.
Linux is not even in the same ballpark. System76 apply some tweaks but its still Ubuntu and as a desktop OS its lacking in many areas.
It's been a struggle to find a 1440 AMD laptop, I have one that I'm happy with for travel. (Lenovo Yoga Slim 7 Carbon Gen 6)
I also don't want it to be too big, for travel, so numpad is out for me.
The Slim 7 feels like a toy, but it's actually just very, very light, and made of plastic. It creeks, yes, but it's very, very light. This is more important to me when it's on my back, than being out of metal.
1. https://rog.asus.com/laptops/rog-zephyrus/rog-zephyrus-g14-2...
I'm also not into numpads on laptops. Not that they aren't useful sometimes, but the they push the alpha cluster and trackpad off-center which is uncomfortable to type on which is hard to justify with how little I personally need one — a standalone numpad that I pull out of a drawer during tax season or whenever makes a lot more sense. Ultimately I think 15"+ laptops should offer keyboard options with and without numpads.
I have the G2 with the 5850U and it performs very well.
21:9 is the popular ultra-widescreen option. 16:9 is the popular regular option. Acting like 16:10 is the direction the industry is going is just bizarre.
The industry is moving to 16:10…
The last 3 laptops I bought are all 16:10. The 2022 Dell XPS 15 I got last year is 16:10.
It’s bizarre you’re unaware the industry is moving in this direction…
I read it to be about people who bought AMD-only laptops from System76, needing to return them to System76 for some reason.
I thought there were factory problems, a page with information about product returns, and possibly a story around that.
E.g. "System76 AMD-Only Laptop, Returns"
"System76 brings back AMD-only laptop" would be an extremely clear way to phrase the title. I'm not even sure the "only" is even that helpful; it could probably just be "AMD laptop".
> Display 15.6″ 1920×1080 FHD, Matte Finish, 144 Hz
But, I agree that a higher resolution would be nice, and if I'm being completely honest... I would want OLED. Tons of affordable OLED laptops have come to market over the past year.
Standard 1080p only looks good for English alphabets. Complex Chinese characters like `國` looks blurry(or even s**tty) on that resolution. Reading chinese charaters on a hidpi monitor is really a much better experience.
I really like AMD on the notebook. Compared to my 4 year old Oryx pro (intel 8th gen), which had poor battery life (esp when using the Nvidia graphics) and required a reboot initially if I wanted to switch to intel graphics. This one is much nicer, but it won't game nearly as well as one with dedicated graphics.
So, please, its hard to call your product "premium" if its screen is worse than a bottom of the barrel tablet.
Because they're cheaper.
>My laptop has a 16:9 that looks worse, and has lower resolution despite the machine costing 6x as much.
Right, so your laptop mfgr spent less money on the screen, charged more money, and got a higher profit margin -> win! This lets their execs get bigger bonuses so they can buy better yachts. What's not to like here?
I like 16x9. What do you want instead?
MS Surface Books are 3:2 for example (2256 x 1504 on 13,5" / 2496 x 1664 on 15"), or some Thinkpad X1 models are 4:3 (probably just the Fold?). The Framework laptop is also 3:2 (2256 x 1504 on 13,5")
Maybe in time that will change, but that's just how Linux is for now.
since 13months ago, HP sells a elite book G9 for 2k, which have the best combo configuration at, gasp, wallmart for 800... eigth hundred dollars.
same cpu, but PRO version. metal and plastic body. scissor waterproof keyboard. usb c charging (system76 is barrel), 2x sodimm ram slots (system76 is soldered, note thay amd zen3+ pro mighty allow ECC ram in a laptop for the first time! so i want slots), the battery have 18Wh less, but it is also 20pct ligther. and all hardware is fully supported with 5.8+ kernel.
I always try to buy from linux-first-vendors, but I still deal with a librem13 that have sevral keys fail on their keyboard and support is ghosting me. even had to super-glue the hinge latelly. so awful :(
I have the older g8. It worked perfectly out of the box on linux since new. Recently, windows started being able to use the webcam, too.
But beware the screen. It's absurdly bad. I'd say it's okish for $800. For 2000, it's a bad joke. Some models only have 6-bit screens (at least those have an excuse for being horrible).
The fan is sometimes noisy, too. It seems like it's somewhat off-balance, ever since it was new.
If anyone from System76 is here, I am currently looking for a new laptop and will not be buying a System76 laptop based entirely upon the giant logo on them. I don't want to put a skin, a cover or stickers over my laptop. My preference would be no logo at all but that seems to be impossible. If you are compelled to use me for free advertising post purchase, at least make it somewhat discreet.
This Reddit thread seems to agree with me that the stickers can be removed, albeit about a different model:
https://old.reddit.com/r/System76/comments/ge0mqz/lemur_pro_...
Looks like it has the same kind of lettering as mine, though.
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