I don't think I had ever fully internalized how often I open this site throughout the day. Finish a task? HN. Got frustrated/stuck on a problem? HN break. Waiting for something to install/upload/compile/etc? HN.
Needless to say I opened a new tab, typed "n", and hit enter countless times today before my brain caught up with my muscle memory.
Yep. Same. It says a lot about the quality of HN, I think. Also, I can't remember the last time it was down. For a while, I thought there must be something wrong with my internet connection or DNS config or something.
Habitual usage doesn't necessarily correlate to quality, I'd say. People who use Facebook/Twitter also have this sort of muscle reflex developed over time.
That said, HN does have quality content and the signal/noise is way better than sites designed specifically to keep you addicted.
> For a while, I thought there must be something wrong with my internet connection or DNS config or something.
Definitely thought the same. Then I realized that I'm browsing trough work VPN and had a second thought: what if our admins decided to fight procrastination?
Me too! I was, shamefully, in the middle of work so had a mini panic thinking my 5 min HN scroll was gonna become an hour long battle with my connection!
> Needless to say I opened a new tab, typed "n", and hit enter countless times today before my brain caught up with my muscle memory.
I do this too, and it's because this site is an addictive slot machine just like every other social networking site. I actually really hate this website, but I'm here almost every day, because I can't seem to break the habit. Neat. It's probably because I have a common impulse control / executive functioning disorder, and the way the front page works exploits some bug in my brain.
If it helps, I wouldn't say it's a disorder since it appears that basically everyone has a habit like this. It's probably a byproduct of some kind of adaptive advantage, but I don't have it in me to speculate exactly what at the moment. The only variable is what exactly you do automatically. Nowadays, everyone has their app or web page. Before smartphones and the internet being available everywhere, I remember my mentor talking about quitting cigarettes. This was shortly after the non-smoking section of the restaurant became the whole restaurant. She said that part of why it was so hard to quit was that even when she meant to cut back, she'd still find herself a third of the way through a cigarette before she realized that she'd lit one. I tear at the skin next to my fingernails in addition to opening HN (which was what I switched to when it became painfully obvious that Reddit was both bad for me and run by bad people). I moved my ebook app to the first screen on my phone and moved this app to a spot where I wasn't used to finding it. I figured it might get me to read more. What actually happened is that I started absent-mindedly swiping to the second screen and opening up the app.
It's a pretty universal issue. Companies are just getting better at using it to their advantage.
I really love HN but I too feel like it's an addiction/slot machine.
My solution: a 3-hour focus mode browser extension.
1. Install the BlockSite chrome extension [1].
2. In BlockSite settings, add HN, Twitter, and any other distracting sites to the Focus Mode list and set Focus Mode time to 3 hours.
3. Ensure you uninstall all social media apps from your phone
4. When I find myself opening a new tab and typing "n" to get a dopamine hit, I then turn on my 3-hour focus mode.
Others have mentioned browser add-ons / DNS providers who can limit/blacklist sites. Maybe try one of those? The thing that's worked best for me though is leaving my phone in another room for a while or taking a walk without it.
i got addiction problems and this is the only website that's healthy for me. there's no endless scroll if you just visit the "news" and don't go to the "newest" page. i like how it's intentional to go to the next page. i usually only click through like ~5 pages at most, and once i've visited ~10-20 times in a day, most all the content is stale. it's also been helpful for me to set the procrastination limits. so many times i'll visit and can't scroll and just move on.
with that said, the comments are the most addictive part of this site.
Why hate this site? Because it contains interesting/useful content often enough to make you come back? That'd be a weird reason to hate the site. I too have a common impulse control/executive functioning disorder, but I don't hate the things that it makes me vulnerable to. If I were feeling resentful, I'd have to put the blame on my condition.
I don't have to ask why you hate reddit, the valid reasons for hating reddit are myriad
I was in almost the exact same position all day. What made it worse though was the fact that this happened right in the middle of my attempts at curbing my browsing habits. Once my app timers for Reddit is Fun, Instagram, and Twitter were up, it was time for HN... except there was no HN. What that meant is that I was reaching for a stimulus and then not getting it, the same way that an alcoholic wouldn't feel satisfied by, say, a can of soda. It was weird to experience, but very enlightening. It both made me realize how subconsciously my addiction is reinforced and reaffirmed to me that it is, in fact, an addiction. I'm not going to stop using HN of course, but I'm definitely going to be more aware of how I use it (e.g. passively vs. intentionally) from now on.
As far as addictions go, I find HN actually one that delivers actual knowledge. Literally every day I read something I didn't know before. Unlike on Facebook that just tries to serve me with more of the stuff I have already seen.
I like wasting time on HN because it's time not actually wasted :)
And don't get me started on Twitter... Sure there are some gems on twitter but I have to wade through 1000s of tweets of pure nonsense to see them. No thanks. If it's something really great someone will post a link on HN anyway :)
I reference back to it for a lot of info too, which I guess I should probably load more of into my own notes database. But still today there were a bunch of saved comments I wanted to re-read as reference multiple times, definitely noticeable to miss it. Or alternatively if I'd grabbed the URLs for everything I'm assuming the wayback machine probably archives this pretty well. Perils of depending on the HNcloud service :).
That used to happen to me with Slashdot too. I'm so happy that today I didn't even realize HN was down, I think I tried once, it didn't load and went do something else, I assumed it was some local DNS or internet issue.
This happened last couple of times I switched laptops - my old habit to visit "guardian.co.uk" by typing "guar" and hitting enter no longer works because I've now accidentally searched too many times for "guar" :D
You can make the omnibox forget about URLs and search terms you've used a lot by selecting them with the down key then pressing Shift+Delete (https://superuser.com/a/189334).
Wow, I've never realized just how often I do this. There's some sort of a reward pathway in my brain connecting my right index finger to seeing that orange bar and lines of text.
I once had a small fleet of SSDs fail because they had some uptime counters that overflowed after 4.5 years, and that somehow persistently wrecked some internal data structures. It turned them into little, unrecoverable bricks.
It was not awesome seeing a bunch of servers go dark in just about the order we had originally powered them on. Not a fun day at all.
There's a principle in aviation of staggering engine maintenance on multiple-engined airplanes to avoid maintenance-induced errors leading to complete power loss.
Or even if the power supplies were purchased around the same time. I had a batch of servers that as soon as they arrived started chewing through hard drives. It took about 10 failed drives before I realized it was a problem with the power supplies.
Even if they're not the same, they're written at the same time and rate, meaning they have the same wear over time, subject to the same power/heat issues, etc.
> Double disk failure is improbable but not impossible.
It's actually surprisingly common for failover hardware to fail shortly after the primary hardware. It's normally been exposed to similar conditions to what killed the primary and the strain of failing over pushes it over the edge.
For load balancing I would consider this very likely because both are equally loaded. But "failover" I would usually consider a scenario where a second server is purely in wait for the primary to fail, in which case it would be virtually unused. Like an active/passive scenario as someone mentioned below.
But perhaps I got my terminology mixed up. I'm not working with servers so much anymore.
If you have an active/passive HA setup and don't test it periodically (by taking the active server offline and switching them afterwards), my guess is that double disk failures will be more common than single disk failures for you.
Still, I see no reason for prioritizing that failure mode on a site like HN.
A long time ago we had a Dell server which was pre setup raid from Dell (don't ask, I didn't order it). Eventually one disk on this server died, what sucked was that the second disk in the raid array also failed only a few minutes later. We had to restore from backup which sucked but to our surprise when we opened the Dell server the two disks had sequential serial numbers. They came from the same batch at the same time. Not a good thing to do when you sell people pre configured raid systems at a mark up...
By second disk failure do they mean that the disks on both the primary and fallback servers failed? Or do they mean that two disks (of a RAID1 or similar setup) in the fallback server failed?
The latter is understandable, the former would be quite a surprise for such a popular site. That means that the machines have no disk redundancy and the server is going down immediately on disk failure. The fallback server would be the only backup.
They were in two mirrors, each mirror in a different server. Each server in different racks in the same row. The servers were on different power circuits from different panels.
HN will be around a hundred years. I think it's more than just a forum. We've seen lots of people coordinate during disasters, for example. Dan and his team do a good job running it. (I'm not a part of it.)
EDIT: My response was based on some edits that are now removed.
This downtime made me realize (again) how much I appreciate the kind of interesting topics that show up here, the depth of discussion, and a general attitude of good faith that (most) engage with here.
I realized how little of this I find elsewhere in my life - whether through Reddit or even my IRL friend circles.
This realization saddens me - I feel like I shouldn’t have to rely on HN so much to scratch this particular itch.
> This realization saddens me - I feel like I shouldn’t have to rely on HN so much to scratch this particular itch.
> Perhaps I need to get out more.
Another way to look at it is that you have a particular set of interests and HN is the online outlet that serves those interests. There's nothing wrong with that, at all and you don't need to have multiple sources for it. No different than someone who likes to ride bikes owning one bike, or someone who likes to read going to the same local library every week for 10 years.
It is very different from your examples. Even if you only own one bike, there are innumerable others in existence and companies making new ones every day, if yours is destroyed or lost. Similarly, there are plenty of local libraries to choose from, even if your favorite one closes.
Whereas, if HN closes, there is no equivalent replacement available.
The beautiful part of the internet is that it provides space for people to share incredibly niche interests. For all of its problems and complications, that beauty still exists.
I don't know about this "going out", but a few other useful websites like this one would be nice. It really does seem bad to not have a couple alternatives on hand.
I've been wanting to create something similar but for cryptocurrencies. A place with no scam/bullshit posts and only deeply technical discussions about the latest trends in zero-knowledge proofs, consensus protocols, scalability challenges, etc.
But I'm too lazy to write the application. I wish there was some SDK I could spin up, like PHPBB back in the days, to have something exactly like HN.
Not that I deserve or expect one from a free service, but because I enjoy reading postmortems from failures where both the primary and backup systems failed, I like to see what holes I might have in my own failover setup.
Readit News
Needless to say I opened a new tab, typed "n", and hit enter countless times today before my brain caught up with my muscle memory.
That said, HN does have quality content and the signal/noise is way better than sites designed specifically to keep you addicted.
Definitely thought the same. Then I realized that I'm browsing trough work VPN and had a second thought: what if our admins decided to fight procrastination?
When I saw hn was down, I double-checked the news to see if a major part of the internet had gone down.
I do this too, and it's because this site is an addictive slot machine just like every other social networking site. I actually really hate this website, but I'm here almost every day, because I can't seem to break the habit. Neat. It's probably because I have a common impulse control / executive functioning disorder, and the way the front page works exploits some bug in my brain.
Reddit does this to me too. I also hate Reddit.
It's a pretty universal issue. Companies are just getting better at using it to their advantage.
My solution: a 3-hour focus mode browser extension.
1. Install the BlockSite chrome extension [1]. 2. In BlockSite settings, add HN, Twitter, and any other distracting sites to the Focus Mode list and set Focus Mode time to 3 hours. 3. Ensure you uninstall all social media apps from your phone 4. When I find myself opening a new tab and typing "n" to get a dopamine hit, I then turn on my 3-hour focus mode.
[1] https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/blocksite-block-we...
with that said, the comments are the most addictive part of this site.
Why hate this site? Because it contains interesting/useful content often enough to make you come back? That'd be a weird reason to hate the site. I too have a common impulse control/executive functioning disorder, but I don't hate the things that it makes me vulnerable to. If I were feeling resentful, I'd have to put the blame on my condition.
I don't have to ask why you hate reddit, the valid reasons for hating reddit are myriad
I like wasting time on HN because it's time not actually wasted :)
And don't get me started on Twitter... Sure there are some gems on twitter but I have to wade through 1000s of tweets of pure nonsense to see them. No thanks. If it's something really great someone will post a link on HN anyway :)
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... I might have been more productive than usual today.
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Double disk failure is improbable but not impossible.
The most impressive thing is that there seems to be no dataloss, almost whatsoever. Whatever the backup system is, it seems rock solid.
It's not even improbable if the disks are the same kind purchased at the same time.
It was not awesome seeing a bunch of servers go dark in just about the order we had originally powered them on. Not a fun day at all.
e.g. Simultaneous Engine Maintenance Increases Operating Risks, Aviation Mechanics Bulletin, September–October 1999 https://flightsafety.org/amb/amb_sept_oct99.pdf
It's actually surprisingly common for failover hardware to fail shortly after the primary hardware. It's normally been exposed to similar conditions to what killed the primary and the strain of failing over pushes it over the edge.
For load balancing I would consider this very likely because both are equally loaded. But "failover" I would usually consider a scenario where a second server is purely in wait for the primary to fail, in which case it would be virtually unused. Like an active/passive scenario as someone mentioned below.
But perhaps I got my terminology mixed up. I'm not working with servers so much anymore.
Those responsible for the sacking have also been sacked.
each server has a pair of mirrored disks, so it seems we're talking about 4 drives failing, not just 2.
On the other hand the primary seems to have gone down 6 hours before the backup server did, so the failures weren't quite simultaneous.
Yes—I'm a bit unclear on what happened there, but that does seem to be the case.
Still, I see no reason for prioritizing that failure mode on a site like HN.
A long time ago we had a Dell server which was pre setup raid from Dell (don't ask, I didn't order it). Eventually one disk on this server died, what sucked was that the second disk in the raid array also failed only a few minutes later. We had to restore from backup which sucked but to our surprise when we opened the Dell server the two disks had sequential serial numbers. They came from the same batch at the same time. Not a good thing to do when you sell people pre configured raid systems at a mark up...
The latter is understandable, the former would be quite a surprise for such a popular site. That means that the machines have no disk redundancy and the server is going down immediately on disk failure. The fallback server would be the only backup.
Primary failure: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32024036 Standby failure: https://twitter.com/HNStatus/status/1545409429113229312
Also I remember the "Why we're going with Rails" story on the front page from before it went down.
Were they connected on the same power supply? I had 4 different disks fail at the same time before, but they were all in the same PC... (lightning)
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sounds like it is run by one guy
EDIT: My response was based on some edits that are now removed.
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I realized how little of this I find elsewhere in my life - whether through Reddit or even my IRL friend circles.
This realization saddens me - I feel like I shouldn’t have to rely on HN so much to scratch this particular itch.
Perhaps I need to get out more.
> Perhaps I need to get out more.
Another way to look at it is that you have a particular set of interests and HN is the online outlet that serves those interests. There's nothing wrong with that, at all and you don't need to have multiple sources for it. No different than someone who likes to ride bikes owning one bike, or someone who likes to read going to the same local library every week for 10 years.
I think I’m just realizing I need to find that in more places, regardless of topic focus.
Whereas, if HN closes, there is no equivalent replacement available.
But I'm too lazy to write the application. I wish there was some SDK I could spin up, like PHPBB back in the days, to have something exactly like HN.
____________
Related:
https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-silicon-valley/th...
https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=dang
Not that I deserve or expect one from a free service, but because I enjoy reading postmortems from failures where both the primary and backup systems failed, I like to see what holes I might have in my own failover setup.
Tell HN: HN Moved from M5 to AWS - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32030400 - July 2022 (116 comments)
Ask HN: What'd you do while HN was down? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32026639 - July 2022 (218 comments)
HN is up again - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32026571 - July 2022 (314 comments)
I'd particularly look here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32026606 and here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32031025.
If you scroll through my comments from today via https://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=dang&next=32039936, there are additional details. (Sorry for recommending my own comments.)
If you (or anyone) skim through that stuff and have a question that isn't answered there, I'd be happy to take a crack at it.
https://check-host.net/ip-info?host=https://news.ycombinator...
http://50.112.136.166/
https://search.arin.net/rdap/?query=50.112.136.166
Note: HN has been on M5 hosting for years and they were still there as of 16-hours ago per Dang:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32024105
During the outage, listed places to check HN related systems, posted them here:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32029014
I definitely spent a non-reasonable amount of time thinking my internet had a problem trying to open HN since it's always just been so constant.