This article was widely derided among translator/localizer circles, because the true fact of the matter is that the only thing causing "shortage" is that the pay is shit. A lot of the article here builds up on statements by David Lee, the CEO of Iyuno-SDI, and even the article mentions the fact that his company pays its staff terribly:
> Last year, several major European translator associations blacklisted Iyuno-SDI, discouraging their members from working for the company due to increasing cuts to their freelance subtitling rates.
Anyway, besides the long-standing general disrespect toward the importance of localization, one of the big things driving down rates that has come along recently is the practice of "machine translation post editing" (MTPE for short), where a company first uses machine translation to produce an absolute garbage of a script (because translating fiction is simply not going to work out without an actual intelligence to drive the process) and then hires a translator who will usually need to pretty much redo the entire thing to get something good out of it. But hey, because they're only "editing" an existing script, that's enough justification to slash the already bad prices to basically nothing!
There are many more people who are capable of translating from Korean to Dutch than actually do because no one does. Just like no one does for Swedish, Norwegian or Danish. There must exist members of the professional class in those countries who don’t speak English at a high level but they’re really rare. In international business they’re going to be non-existent. The top third of students in Germany in their grammar schools (Gymnasium) read novels in English during their studies. Germans have worse English than the Dutch and Nordics. This is just a terrible example to try to prove your point.
I’ve seen several medical organizations seeking volunteers who speak Ukrainian to help with refugees. It’s concerning to me how little some organizations value accurate translation. Even when there is potential liability involved.
I mean at the end of the day there are only so many translators, and streaming did not exist on this level even 5 years ago. That's a lot of new demand while the old demand is all still there.
The idea that there can never be a labor shortage, only a pay shortage seems a bit odd. Would you say that there isn't a housing shortage? Only a shortage of people willing to pay up for it?
There absolutely isn't a labor shortage with translators. There's plenty of talent out there, it's just that many are not willing to work for the peanuts that big companies are offering so they end up doing something else to get by instead. If the companies tripled or quadrupled their current rates, many who have abandoned the field in the past due to poor compensation would jump right back in.
We had a good demonstration of the above here in Finland a while back. There's been a lot of talk here about a "nurse shortage", but the reality is that most places just aren't willing to pay nurses well. When an individual company announced an opening for nurses with way higher pay, they were flooded with qualified applicants - many which came from people who had quit nursing previously due to poor pay.
You say there's only so many translators. Yet, almost every time something is released there's thousands of people complaining that the translation is wrong. So who are these people?
You might not call them "translators" but they can speak both languages. There's lots of these people and I'm sure that if the work was well paid then many of them would jump at the opportunity. The issue is that it's not well paid. Those who want to do translation work and not live paycheck to paycheck often have different jobs and translate work as a hobby, e.g. many Anime and Manga translators.
Well, my wife was a pro translator but she found she could make a nicer living by writing books. If it paid enough, she would not have quit (and she was on the higher scale with corp clients). You need a good network and clients who want to pay for quality. The reality is that most just pop text into Google translate, fix the result a bit and that’s it. You cannot compete if companies are willing to pay for crap like that. One of the last projects was a German to English documentary and the client sent over a translation by someone ‘asking a fraction of the price’; the translation was simply wrong for a large amount in of the text. German has many things words and contexts that simply are wrong if you translate them directly. The last project which was the end of it was a Portugese book; she (my wife) translated 1 chapter but to make the humor and cultural references work in English, it was a very expensive chapter. So they found someone on Fiverr who did it. I am not kidding; it is some of the worst things I have ever seen; this translator, like the amateur he is, mixes up he/she and puts ‘the’ in front of everything. This is indeed what you get if you naively translate PT to EN but now that book was published totally unreadable for an English audience. But it was very cheap. That was the last straw. So tl;dr definitely money as far as I see around me. Because to recognise quality you have to spend time and know both languages well, it seems many pick cheap.
If you see translations for Netflix movies and shows from ES, PT, FR, NL, DE, I often go back (I watch everything OV but with subtitles and the subtitles mostly stink) thinking, what, he really didn’t say that at all. There are massive errors in there along with the flattening and badly translated nuances. Humor never works unless it’s slapstick because translating humor is really expensive.
The person you’re replying to didn’t say there isn’t a labor shortage. Only that the cause of the labor shortage is oft incorrectly identified as solely due to demand.
There is a housing shortage and a doctor shortage because there are groups enforcing limits. Someone has to bid too low and not get one of these, that this highest unnaccepted bid went up means nothing to NIMBYs or the AMA.
There is no shortage of fast food workers or translators. If the bids go up to be on par with restaurant jobs or international business jobs, someone adequately qualified will decide to stop looking for a better career option and take one of these jobs.
> Would you say that there isn't a housing shortage?
There isn't, the problem is everybody thinks they must be owners despite their financials. Truth is, offer is limited because not everyone can afford a house in most cities.
From a bank perspective, the bank wants more from both sides : deposits and loans and that's the truth driving the "demand" : let's give away more loans !
I personally know several translators. Most of them either already left the field or are considering it.
Freelance/contract work with lots of time pressure, low pay and no benefits is the norm.
With ML translations becoming better, much of the work is reduced to manually patching up whatever Google Translate spits out. Which of course is used as justification for further lowering the pay.
The only somewhat happy ones landed a good gig at international institutions like the UN or EU, but that comes with extremely boring material.
Pay well and there will be plenty qualified applicants with the relevant degrees.
If this is anything like the “trucker shortage” in the USA, it’s not just because of the demand, but also because the jobs suck and are underpaid relative to the amount of skill/commitment required to be good at it.
And yet, executives always complain only of the demand? Are they unable to see the truth or are they simply unwilling?
Exactly. It’s like after the dot com boom no one can be content to get normal rich. Everyone wants to get “exponential” rich with software leverage. I know several people that serve as interpreters (Chinese/English) and the amount of work and dedication it takes makes me feel ashamed when I think of how comparatively easy it was for me to learn how to code and how much of a disparity between our pay there is. I think I’m pretty libertarian-minded, but the business mindset of the modern world is so shitty. Some things can’t be automated with acceptable quality, but it seems like our MBA overlords just can’t countenance paying a human being to do skilled work unless it’s something flashy like React.
You seem to be suffering from the fallacy that hard work deserves high pay regardless of the usefulness of that work or the available labor supply. It's a very good thing that we pay people according to market rates in the long term because it continually optimizes production of good things that we all benefit from.
I'm sure making gravel with a hammer is even harder work, and it's a good thing that we don't pay people to do that.
In the short term it can screw over individuals who find themselves in the wrong type of work, but there are easy ways to protect against that too, for those that are worried enough.
And let's not forget how much crappy software we have around us because said overlords decided how much investment in quality is good enough and started to fail fast.
Executives are in the business of buying labor for money and as any purchaser they would prefer to get the best deal possible. Why wouldn't they try to get potential sellers to sell their labor to them for less than it's worth? Best case they get valuable labor for less than market price, worst case someone rejects their offer and may be mildly offended for a while. If they find no takers, they'll slowly raise offers until they find someone.
Of course this stops working when there is a genuine shortage of labor, or when a company gets a sufficiently bad reputation that nobody wants to work for them anymore. Both of those cases are not a problem for 99% of companies though.
I think there is another aspect which the article does not mention: most young people are "fluent listeners" in English and most movies shown internationally are in English.
So many young viewers wants English subtitles (to match the language spoken), not Danish/Swedish/... subtitles.
This is like when English viewers wants subtitles because it is too difficult to hear what the actors are saying.
So there is only a significant demand for good translation for a small number of movies. For all the other (trash) movies Netflix puts out, translation is a cost center with no benefits.
Otherwise Netflix would employ translators directly. There is a good market supply as translation is easy for any language students. Only the super-low payment is keeping the talents away.
Conclusion: the "labor shortage" is a "sorry, but WONTFIX" statement from Netflix. It's just politically unacceptable to say it directly.
I am fluent in important strategic and business languages. Any translator job offer I have recieved has always tried to pay people around $25 per hour but calculated by the second with all downtime excluded.
If I worked in IT, my downtime could be spent learning new skills and getting paid to do it. Working as a translator and you have a take home pay of about $4 per hour as your downtime is not compensated, like a waiter without tips.
I am sure there are better translation gigs out there -- but the entire field has "avoid like the plague" written all over it.
It's funny that the people wanting the work for hire want to pay by the hour, but typical translators charge by the word or page.
Standard transcription service fees are similar. Transcribing a feature film can much less expensive than a half hour talking head segment. Talking heads don't stop talking where features have a lot of cinematic/dramatic moments without dialog.
A translator would need the same thing PLUS the actual translation.
I believe it. Anyone making it a long term profession needs to be really good and also really aggressive about their pricing, otherwise it just wouldn't be a livable income.
Stories like this might as well be titled "Local change in Earth's magnetic field causes objects to float in the air". They shouldn't be read and then disputed because their details don't match the facts, they should be laughed out of the room based on the title alone. The forces they suppose to be relevant just aren't anywhere even close to the brute economic logic that actually governs how many people are willing to work in a field.
If companies want to employ more roofers, they should pay roofers more. It turns out that they will find more roofers that way. If they can't afford that... then we as a society didn't actually want that much roofing done in the first place. Or teaching, or farming, or programming, or whatever kind of job this story happened to be about again.
There is a senior engineer shortage in my area. The reason is that senior engineers make more money working from home for companies that have their HQ somewhere else.
Readit News
> Last year, several major European translator associations blacklisted Iyuno-SDI, discouraging their members from working for the company due to increasing cuts to their freelance subtitling rates.
Anyway, besides the long-standing general disrespect toward the importance of localization, one of the big things driving down rates that has come along recently is the practice of "machine translation post editing" (MTPE for short), where a company first uses machine translation to produce an absolute garbage of a script (because translating fiction is simply not going to work out without an actual intelligence to drive the process) and then hires a translator who will usually need to pretty much redo the entire thing to get something good out of it. But hey, because they're only "editing" an existing script, that's enough justification to slash the already bad prices to basically nothing!
So what happens is that there is one Korean>English master script that Netflix uses.
The idea that there can never be a labor shortage, only a pay shortage seems a bit odd. Would you say that there isn't a housing shortage? Only a shortage of people willing to pay up for it?
We had a good demonstration of the above here in Finland a while back. There's been a lot of talk here about a "nurse shortage", but the reality is that most places just aren't willing to pay nurses well. When an individual company announced an opening for nurses with way higher pay, they were flooded with qualified applicants - many which came from people who had quit nursing previously due to poor pay.
You might not call them "translators" but they can speak both languages. There's lots of these people and I'm sure that if the work was well paid then many of them would jump at the opportunity. The issue is that it's not well paid. Those who want to do translation work and not live paycheck to paycheck often have different jobs and translate work as a hobby, e.g. many Anime and Manga translators.
There are more houses empty than homeless people.
So, there seems to be a bunch of people willing to pay for houses and no living in them.
If you see translations for Netflix movies and shows from ES, PT, FR, NL, DE, I often go back (I watch everything OV but with subtitles and the subtitles mostly stink) thinking, what, he really didn’t say that at all. There are massive errors in there along with the flattening and badly translated nuances. Humor never works unless it’s slapstick because translating humor is really expensive.
There is no shortage of fast food workers or translators. If the bids go up to be on par with restaurant jobs or international business jobs, someone adequately qualified will decide to stop looking for a better career option and take one of these jobs.
There isn't, the problem is everybody thinks they must be owners despite their financials. Truth is, offer is limited because not everyone can afford a house in most cities.
From a bank perspective, the bank wants more from both sides : deposits and loans and that's the truth driving the "demand" : let's give away more loans !
Freelance/contract work with lots of time pressure, low pay and no benefits is the norm.
With ML translations becoming better, much of the work is reduced to manually patching up whatever Google Translate spits out. Which of course is used as justification for further lowering the pay.
The only somewhat happy ones landed a good gig at international institutions like the UN or EU, but that comes with extremely boring material.
Pay well and there will be plenty qualified applicants with the relevant degrees.
And yet, executives always complain only of the demand? Are they unable to see the truth or are they simply unwilling?
1. repeat in media that there is a shortage of X
2. people conclude that it is a good idea to get an education/training in X
3. there are more people are in X, meaning that wages can drop
4. profit
https://www.npr.org/2020/08/10/901110994/big-rigged
I'm sure making gravel with a hammer is even harder work, and it's a good thing that we don't pay people to do that.
In the short term it can screw over individuals who find themselves in the wrong type of work, but there are easy ways to protect against that too, for those that are worried enough.
Of course this stops working when there is a genuine shortage of labor, or when a company gets a sufficiently bad reputation that nobody wants to work for them anymore. Both of those cases are not a problem for 99% of companies though.
So many young viewers wants English subtitles (to match the language spoken), not Danish/Swedish/... subtitles.
This is like when English viewers wants subtitles because it is too difficult to hear what the actors are saying.
So there is only a significant demand for good translation for a small number of movies. For all the other (trash) movies Netflix puts out, translation is a cost center with no benefits.
Otherwise Netflix would employ translators directly. There is a good market supply as translation is easy for any language students. Only the super-low payment is keeping the talents away.
Conclusion: the "labor shortage" is a "sorry, but WONTFIX" statement from Netflix. It's just politically unacceptable to say it directly.
If I worked in IT, my downtime could be spent learning new skills and getting paid to do it. Working as a translator and you have a take home pay of about $4 per hour as your downtime is not compensated, like a waiter without tips.
I am sure there are better translation gigs out there -- but the entire field has "avoid like the plague" written all over it.
Standard transcription service fees are similar. Transcribing a feature film can much less expensive than a half hour talking head segment. Talking heads don't stop talking where features have a lot of cinematic/dramatic moments without dialog.
A translator would need the same thing PLUS the actual translation.
If companies want to employ more roofers, they should pay roofers more. It turns out that they will find more roofers that way. If they can't afford that... then we as a society didn't actually want that much roofing done in the first place. Or teaching, or farming, or programming, or whatever kind of job this story happened to be about again.