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Posted by u/hifikuno 4 years ago
Ask HN: How do you manage your companies knowledge base?
After losing a few key personnel lately I have become painfully aware of the amount of knowledge stuck with individuals. While we do have a wiki of knowledge, a lot of the pages are outdated, incorrect or just not needed anymore.

My problem is, I know that we are missing information, what I don't know is how to tease out that information from myself and other coworkers. Do you have any advice on how to get the knowledge out of my coworkers and into the knowledge base? Or, do you have a book you recommend? I have found a few books on knowledge bases but the reviews seem to be pretty hit and miss.

Edit: After talking with some friends about it I think I was able to articulate my main issue I have. In making this documentation it feels like I am winging it. However, all my training has been in coding and coding always has standards, guidelines and frameworks. It's hard for me to just work on the docs as I feel like I should be following some sort of standard as I do it.

Edit: Currently I am stuck with Confluence as the actual technology to use.

bluGill · 4 years ago
I have a strict rule, anytime someone asks me a question I respond by checking the documentation for that, and writing or fixing it as needed. Once I think the documentation is correct I tell them how to find it, and ask them to tell me where something doesn't make sense so I can fix it.

As an expert I often think things are obvious that are not. So it takes a few rounds to make useful documentation.

ethbr0 · 4 years ago
I call this read-through documentation (a la caching), in that you're always reading from the documentation (cache) and a missing document pulls it into the documentation (by writing it), before servicing the request.

It takes discipline, as otherwise everyone skips the "write documentation" step, and it will annoy some people with high priority issues.

But IMHO, it's the only thing that actually scales if you truly want comprehensive, continuously-updated documentation.

Side note: An excellent way to generate drafts for missing content is have your new hires write them as they get up to speed. By definition they're looking everything up, so they'll notice gaps. And they have time, before they're fully up to speed. And as long as someone with knowledge proofs their draft, their lack of experience shouldn't matter.

cmonnow · 4 years ago
My strict rule : Never write/store documentation that is separate from underlying 0s & 1s. It always goes out of sync.

We are currently in the process of creating a data dictionary for our company.

I put down a rule that we are not ever going to create a SEPARATE WordDoc/Wiki/Evernote/GenZ-tool.

If it is code, document its meaning (english explanation for laymen) in the doc string. If it is data, document its meaning in the column's metadata (all database systems provide a property/comment/description capability at table & column level). If it requires complex diagrams, put these in whatever files (doc/image/pdf/mp3), store it as a blob in a database and create a link it in original code comments/column metadata.

All this data is then constantly pulled into some data-mart on top of which a query-able UI is created.

Every documentation must be literally "Tied" to actual systems making money for the company.

If a new code/data is created or updated, and it's missing documentation, PR is not approved. Once the basic technical setup of tying code/data with comments/metadata is done, enforcing this rule of updating documentation is the job of management/CTO culture.

a_bonobo · 4 years ago
This is a great approach.

How do you deal with outdated info that's still useful to keep around?

I have a few internal wiki-pages which are 80% 'stuff I tried that doesn't work but I'd like to keep around because the tries are valuable in case I re-visit these angles', 20% 'stuff that worked in the end'. I find the 80% confuse newcomers, and I still have to explain which parts are important.

jabroni_salad · 4 years ago
I have a separate content category called The Stacks. If you're looking around in there, you are having a bad day, but it's come in handy a few times.
Mezzie · 4 years ago
I'm in the process of creating an internal documentation wiki + system for my organization.

You separate out them out into 2 related parts of documentation. My guess is that you want them in the same wiki page because that's how you wrote it and that's how the information lives in your head since it's all for the same project, but from an information management point of view, they're two different pieces of information with mutually exclusive metadata properties.

More broadly, ideally you talk to other people and find out where THEIR 80% 'stuff I tried that doesn't work but I'd like to keep around because the tries are valuable in case I re-visit these angles' information lives and collect it all together and presented in a way where people know going in that they're looking at historical information for the sake of current decision making.

aerojoe23 · 4 years ago
I like having a section in a project document titled approaches tried and why we're not doing that. It sounds like this maybe whole projects/products that have died. Maybe large titles that say canceled, discontinued, or whatever.

On the other hand if you have good version control over the wiki, and a way to search the version history as well, kill the zombies.

Just like killing zombies in your code, killing zombies in documentation sounds good. https://www.bitnative.com/2012/10/22/kill-the-zombies-in-you...

polote · 4 years ago
The more general concept behind that is called document life cycle. Ideally you would want to have different possible status, like draft, published, verified, outdated, archived. Most wiki tools don't handle that well. And make outdated = archived which is an issue as in your case, will not work, and outdated documents will keep polluting your knowledge base
kaycebasques · 4 years ago
Put it in an "archive" category and auto-insert a header at the top of every page under /archive explaining that it's old and probably outdated but kept around for historical research purposes.
arrozcomfeijao · 4 years ago
We do the exact same thing. Whenever we answer a question, the MO is to "point to the answer in the documentation and, if it's not there, add it and then point to it".
kaycebasques · 4 years ago
I used this approach when doing the DevRel for Chrome DevTools. I would browse Stack Overflow for uses cases not explained in the docs, add a doc for it, and then link my Stack Overflow answer to the (newly created) official doc.
Semaphor · 4 years ago
That is a great idea. We have a company-wide OneNote notebook with some (extremely) rudimentary documentation, I hope I’ll remember this the next time someone asks me a question, so I can add it there :)
100011_100001 · 4 years ago
Where is the documentation stored? One of my main blocks is how hard it is to update documentation.
bluGill · 4 years ago
Where is just a tool, don't get too locked into a tool just get one and use it. The important part is that IT will agree to move move your URLs around every few months.
phphphphp · 4 years ago
I've not tried this at scale so it remains theory for me, but at a previous company, I proposed that we tackle this problem in the same way medical literature is managed by health organisations. That is, every page is owned and every page has an expiry: when a page expires, the owners are obligated to review it. The "yikes" part of that idea is that it feels burdensome, but that's because retaining and managing knowledge is burdensome and businesses should be measuring knowledge as an asset (or liability) and budgeting accordingly.

Ultimately, most people are digital maximalists when they'd be better off being digital minimalists. I (in my personal life and in the small teams I work with) purposefully delete things that I do not wish to accept the burden of owning. Either something is important enough to justify the burden of ensuring it's accurate, or it isn't and it is deleted.

I have found that thinking about documentation in these terms, it becomes clear what to document and what not to document, and it forces better practices elsewhere in the business -- like writing code that clearly communicates the why, or designing business processes that leverage a core set of business information.

kaycebasques · 4 years ago
As a technical writer of 9+ years I can share some concrete experience related to your theory. The theory is right on the money. Assigning an owner and tracking last review date is a very effective practice. Google had a great system (go/fresh-source) in their internal doc infrastructure, g3doc. I learned recently that parts of Microsoft have a similar setup. You put an "owner" field in the YAML frontmatter of your doc (the value is the username of the person who owns the doc), as well as a "last review" field (value is last review date). Then you build a reporting system that tracks who is keeping their docs up-to-date and who is not. You can ensure that people don't game it (e.g. just updating the "last review" field without actually looking at the docs) by cross-referencing with other metrics, such as number of bugs opened that are related to that area of the docs.
bobbydreamer · 4 years ago
Yep. The same approach my org uses as well. There is a team, who deals with all orgs docs maintain it. There is a internal portal to submit and you start getting mails 2 months before expiry.

Respective team meetings, it's a agenda to talk about what needs to be updated, after updating a draft will be sent and later uploaded in the portal.

WJW · 4 years ago
I think that expiry of documentation is a great idea, but it could go further:

- Often, teams "own" stuff but the real knowledge is stuck inside individuals. This type of thing would need to survive the relentless reorg cycle that seems ubiquitous in tech companies.

- The health sector seems to have longer overall tenures than the tech sector. At the very least this kind of system should somehow link into the HR administration, so that if a document owner leaves there can be an alert "This document is now unowned!". Of course, that alert also needs someone to monitor that.

- What would you use as a metric for the asset-ness of knowledge? Some types of knowledge seem more important than others, but it is not clear to me how to quantify that.

Your point about digital minimalism is very good though. A lot of things that should be deleted are instead kept around in a form of digital hoarding behavior.

r_hoods_ghost · 4 years ago
The way it works on a typical QMS (quality management system) of the type you use in healthcare is when someone leaves the line manager or quality manager has to go through and reassign any documents owned by the individual (and they're always owned by an individual) to someone else. It's very much part of the normal rhythm of business and you have to do it because if you're working in medical / life sciences you need to be accredited, and as part of the accreditation your QMS will be checked to ensure it is up to date and there's no-one one there that shouldn't be.
da39a3ee · 4 years ago
As a slight extension of this line of thinking:

Every document is either "live" or a "snapshot".

Live documents have an expiry.

Documents are snapshots by default.

phphphphp · 4 years ago
I don't have a great answer unfortunately. My best attempt would involve walking back my use of "knowledge" as both an asset and liability, and instead I'd try to add some distinction, i.e: maybe describe "knowledge" as the asset and "documentation" as the liability.

Knowledge is something you consume, digest and then use to inform thinking. New knowledge is built on old, and business outputs can be traced back through the knowledge that shaped them. Documentation, on the other hand, is a statement of fact(s) that are applicable only in a specific context (often temporal) that do not contribute to the evolution of a business.

Liabilities aren't inherently negative, they're a valuable tool in the right circumstance: a piece of documentation written for a customer support agent describing "how to issue a refund" has value but it can't be leveraged to grow the business, it can't be built upon, and it must be maintained. The business then must make a tradeoff between investing in knowledge or taking on liabilities.

If we were to represent this visually, knowledge would be the branches of a tree that other branches grow from, and documentation is a dead end.

Most of the documentation I've encountered in my professional life has been written to meet an arbitrary requirement for there to be "documentation" about an output, and so it's a rushed recital of the bare-minimum facts about a thing that exists. Nothing can grow from it. Whereas, when I've encountered it, the knowledge used along the way has been very valuable. A business can create an asset by capturing everything learned, and leverage that asset to inform the next decision, and so on and so forth. After all, that's what individual employees are doing already, it's just happening siloed in their heads.

Returning to the customer support example: years of knowledge collected about our business might teach us that our product's sizing is unique in the marketplace and many customers end up refunding their first purchase to order a different size. If issuing a refund takes 5 minutes per customer, and if all we have is documentation describing the 10 step process, a request from stakeholders to improve customer support efficiency might manifest itself as software development work to reduce issuing a refund to a 5 step process... but knowledge about the business would inform us that what customers really want is to ability to find the right size that fits. Rather than make a documented process easier, we might implement a purchase option where we charge for 1 item, send out 2 sizes, and the customer returns the one they don't want to keep. If all our business knowledge is captured, and not siloed, then a new employee should be able to theorise that, not only an employee who has been around from the start.

I'm not sure how confident I am in the way I've framed this, and using the word "documentation" seems like a risk because "documentation" means "everything written down" to most people, but I appreciate your question because it was interesting to think about: maybe someday I'll have more clarity in my thinking on this.

leftnode · 4 years ago
There's a piece of software (that I have no affiliation with) that has a feature like this built in named Guru: https://www.getguru.com
hifikuno · 4 years ago
Oh my god, the expiry date is an amazing idea. So much of our data is never updated, and forcing the creator to update it or delete it before the expiry date would clear up so much old and outdated information.
deanebarker · 4 years ago
I saw an intranet once that took this to the extreme. If a page went 30 days past expiration, it would only show a preview, then say something like:

"Only Bob Jones knows the rest of this story. Call him at x1234 to ask him about it."

dotancohen · 4 years ago
Another advantage of the expiry date is that the owner - or his boss - can budget time to keep the docs up to date. It becomes as much a billable task as adding another shiny feature.
kaycebasques · 4 years ago
> After losing a few key personnel lately I have become painfully aware of the amount of knowledge stuck with individuals

Speaking as a technical writer who has worked deeply with engineering teams. You might be "missing the forest for the trees" here a bit by focusing on documentation technology rather than engineering culture. Your team doesn't feel compelled or rewarded to create documentation. Go to your head of engineering, CEO, etc., share the story of losing critical company knowledge when these people left, and suggest to them that the team needs to be properly incentivized to create docs. Make documentation a factor in promotion, bonuses, social recognition, etc.

The technology is more likely to take care of itself after that. Rather, you'll have more engagement from stakeholders and will have more confidence around what will work.

But beyond that, in terms of wrapping your head around information architecture, Divio's documentation system is a great start: https://documentation.divio.com/

You can hire or find technical writers to give brown bag lunches on documentation basics. I would do it for you. Poke around on my HN profile and you'll find how to contact me.

Last, I would set the expectation that it's OK to feel like you're winging the documentation. I suspect a lot of engineers don't write docs because they feel they are bad writers and don't know what they're doing. Just focus on creating a safe space to creating docs and keeping them up-to-date first. Over time as you all use each other's docs you will figure out why they suck.

The Write The Docs conference videos on YouTube are also an excellent resource.

kaycebasques · 4 years ago
What I mentioned in the parent comment is the top-down part of the strategy. The other side is the bottom-up leadership by example as mentioned elsewhere in this thread. Someone asks you for help, you point them to a doc and ask if they still have questions (and update the doc if they unsurface any gaps). If the doc doesn't exist you quickly create it and iterate.
maccard · 4 years ago
We use notion (https://www.notion.so/) but the tool itself doesn't really matter. Confluence, Notion, Basecamp, etc. We're a team of 20 people right now, and _everything_ lives in Notion. No "look at this google doc" or "go to <vendor>'s website", it lives in Notion. We can link to external vendors for "live" content, but PDFs are embedded, samples are zipped, etc.

Each page has an owner, a contact, and an expiry date. Owner is responsible for keeping it up to date, and if you see a page that is expired you can ping the owner (unfortunately we don't have "alert on expired page" yet). If the owner is unavailable, the backup should be able to answer any queries/update the page, and if they can't then the failure of that lies on the page owner. There are a few pages that have empty backups, by virtue of our company size, but all the critical stuff has an owner, backup and is checked once every month or two.

rio517 · 4 years ago
Our team uses notion as well. We're not at the scale that you are with owned pages , expiry. How does your team feel about the effort-to-value of maintaining it? It seems rather onerous.

We tend to keep more ephemeral project management stuff in our tracker or google docs and more long-lived content in our Notion tool. I'd be curious how your team balances that.

SQueeeeeL · 4 years ago
I like these kinds of systems. I do feel like in generally they require so much buy in from everyone, maintaining these pages has to be a constant priority. This becomes a problem if multiple people leave at once or someone is very busy when expiration comes up and rubber stamps the renewal with outdated information...

But it's definitely better than no system at all!

Mezzie · 4 years ago
A proper transition to those systems includes talking to each team that will be using it, breaking down all their workflows, and making sure that said system works with practices in place (a new system that causes everything to take 20% more time is not okay). It also includes maintenance plans; every bit of information planning I do also includes 'this is how you maintain this system/this is the parts that will require effort to maintain/this is what will happen if you decide not to do any maintenance whatsoever, which I do not recommend'.

Documentation management and information architecture planning is work, and properly planned your maintenance will be minimal (NOT non-existent, but minimal) because the system will be designed to be as frictionless as possible.

But nobody wants to either pay for that or accept the time it takes.

maccard · 4 years ago
> do feel like in generally they require so much buy in from everyone, maintaining these pages has to be a constant priority.

This is true of any system of knowledge sharing, even if it's in-person-watercooler chat. The hard part is getting people to do it, no matter what the system is.

> This becomes a problem if multiple people leave at once or someone is very busy when expiration comes up and rubber stamps the renewal with outdated information...

The only solve for multiple people leaving at once is to ensure that you have all of their knowledge documented ahead of time, and if you have that, you don't need anything like this. A tool or a process can't solve people problems. For outdated information, this is no worse than the confluence abyss that I've experienced in previous jobs.

andrei_says_ · 4 years ago
I found that Basecamp’s docs are great for documentation.
r_hoods_ghost · 4 years ago
Hoo boy, that's a tough one. One of my jobs is working for an ISO17043 accreditation provider so we have an ISO9001 QMS that all our docs sit on and every doc goes through an approval process, has a review date on it (6 months, 1 year, 3 years etc.), can have change requests, issues and non conformances logged against it, is included in audits and is written in a standard style.

We have a document controller who's job (not her entire job, but say 20% of her job) is just to ensure that documents are organised correctly, adhere to guidelines and are actually reviewed and updated when they are supposed to be (I.e. she will come and nag you if a document is overdue and you have been ignoring your notifications).

As part of the ordinary rhythm of business, metrics on how well we are doing on the document control front are produced and reviewed roughly every two months by a senior manager in a quality team meeting. If you don't keep up to date with your document control tasks it will be brought up in your appraisal (in a reasonable fashion, you might just have too many docs assigned to you).

There's other stuff, but let's just say document management is quite important to that business because procedures matter when getting them wrong kills people and / or leaves smoking holes in the ground.

Importantly the process of writing a doc is dead easy and anyone (literally, some of the most useful are written by the admin assistants and lab techs) can create one at any time. Theres a standard template and style guide, you write your doc, you choose an approval pathway, classify it and then submit it for approval. While it's waiting to be approved it sits in the drafts register with a warning on it saying not yet approved, but anyone can still access it.

In practice what happens is rather than writing a long email explaining how to do something you'll just write a doc, stick it in the QMS and give someone a link. Then when someone else needs to know that they can either find it themselves or you can just point them at it.

The admin overhead of the whole system is surprisingly small and means that we actually do have up to date documentation on most things.

otoburb · 4 years ago
>>There's other stuff, but let's just say document management is quite important to that business because procedures matter when getting them wrong kills people and / or leaves smoking holes in the ground.

If only other industries took matters as seriously, then an in-house writing culture would (should!) improve dramatically. Sounds like a necessary, yet still insufficient, requirement.

IG_Semmelweiss · 4 years ago
Former Notion customer. It failed for reasons that I should have predicted:

Your wiki is always destined to fail if you are never going to use it as part of your daily ops.

This is why our internal wiki with "Clickup" is working OK thus far. We use clickup because it allows us to create tasks from within our wiki and reference docs in our clickup wiki, and link the latter to tasks or even email chains. As long as someone organized is handling the doc repo and the wikis, its quite good.

In summary. Its great for meeting agendas and opening epics or tasks during the meeting so there's accountability (no GDocs). Its great for doc repo that is "alive" to replace Gdrive. Its great to start customer comms (email outbound that threads inside Clickup) within tasks that themselves are referencing docs in clickup. You could also have a true HR / company policy wiki if you wanted, but we are too small for that. Instead we effectively have an OPS wiki. I think Clickup has found a great product market fit within the B2B space. It may even be great for B2C too.

Full disclosure. We are a customer. We make no money from them in any way.

I also bet that Clickup will eat Notion unless Notion does something dramatic.

fasteddie31003 · 4 years ago
This is the exact problem I'm trying to solve with my startup https://GainKnowHow.com .

I think we have been structuring documentation ineffectively for a while. GainKnowHow structures knowledge by prerequisites in a Knowledge Web, which I think is the best way to figure out how something works.

My goal is to let you "program" your organization through skills in a Knowledge Web that represents how your organization runs. You can write tests to see if employees actually understand their skills and there are change management features that tell the relevant employees when a skill has changed through skill diffs.

Here's an example of how to train your software engineers https://gainknowhow.com/software-companies.html

buro9 · 4 years ago
We (Grafana) are just about to roll out https://www.simpplr.com/ internally.

We've been using a mix of tools until now, Guru, Google Docs... but have lacked discoverability, powerful search, and in Google the ability to create sites for teams, etc.

Personally I use Obsidian and the files are sync'd via Syncthing.

What I wish would exist: A markdown driven wiki with Git (or something like it) in the backend so that you can clone the info locally, or refer to the master version, and even stage big changes to an area, etc. - basically something halfway between Obsidian and Confluence I guess.

discardedrefuse · 4 years ago
I just spent some time looking at this. There's no reason you can't use Obsidian with git. Obsidian just saves md files in a basic folder structure. You can git init in the root of your Obsidian vault directory (.gitignore your .obsidian folder). There's even an "Obsidian Git" community plugin that does the git work for you.

To serve your md files as a traditional wiki in browsers, there's a git backed wiki named Gollum that also uses md files in a basic folder structure. https://github.com/gollum/gollum You can see where I'm going with this.

Gollum doesn't have user authentication or anything fancy, it just renders and edits md files. I tried it. There didn't seem to be a difference between Obsidian's and Gollum's markdown. When I committed my entire Obsidian vault to a git repo, I could still choose to have Gollum serve the entire vault, or just a subdirectory in the repo. I could also disable all editing in Gollum.

While Obsidian is working directly with the md files, Gollum doesn't update until I actually commit the changes. Obsidian is basically an IDE for my wiki now.

I was mostly satisfied with Joplin syncing to OneDrive prior to today's experiment. But now I think Obsidian + Git + Gollum deserves a closer look. It might be a bit overkill for my personal wiki, but it could work in a team setting if everyone works on the wiki like they would a normal git project.

polote · 4 years ago
Simpplr is in my opinion an inferior tool to Confluence or Notion. It works mostly well for static information and as a enterprise search tool, but won't help improving the underlying culture.

As for you ask, the best solution that I've found, is to let people document things on Github and index those documents in another tool. That way there is no duplication, you let people use the tool they know, can use Markdown, but still benefit from searching, assigning owner, up to date date, rights ... That's how we do it at Dokkument

jka · 4 years ago
Have you heard of / explored Athens Research[1] (brief summarization: open source, multiplayer-if-cloud-or-self-hosted, YC-backed)?

[1] - https://www.athensresearch.org/

yabones · 4 years ago
My solution (for personal notes etc) is to make a git repo with markdown files, then render it all with mkdocs on every push. In the past it was just a cron job running on a dumb little webserver (git pull && mkdocs build) to push the new changes every x minutes. Nowadays it's a bit more sophisticated with netlify building on main & PRs. Both are completely valid!

Obviously it's not user-friendly at all. Only people who know how to use git can use it, which isn't great for collaboration with non-techie folks. Ideally, I'd build a little editor widget that could be embedded in the page...

dotancohen · 4 years ago

  > A markdown driven wiki with Git
This is exactly what I do. Though lately I've been transitioning to org-mode for non-personal notes as I don't need them on mobile.

Your users can use any Markdown editor that they like. But one person should be responsible for creating new documents, so that there will be consistency in naming and placing in the hierarchy. Naming things is hard, leave that part up to the Knowledge Base owner.

denton-scratch · 4 years ago
> leave that part up to the Knowledge Base owner.

Well, that's against the philosophy of a wiki. Also, in a small team, nobody is the "knowledgebase owner" - he's just another developer. Putting a human in the workflow creates friction. But I'm totally with you on the "naming things" problem.

A full-blown corporate knowledge management system is a repository you can throw anything into - invoices, emails, memos, reports, etc.; the system will automatically generate a knowledge taxonomy and article summaries. But such systems require much more maintenance effort than something simple like a wiki, and are overkill for a small team of developers.

mplanchard · 4 years ago
On iOS, PlainOrg and BeOrg do a good job of making your org notes readable, searchable, and (basically) editable. I have heard there are good apps for Android as well, but I can’t vouch for them personally.
kaycebasques · 4 years ago
One lesson learned from leading https://web.dev is that a lot of people, even technical ones, aren't comfortable with git + Markdown. And then there are people who are comfortable with it but feel that it's too much friction for simple docs updates.
tempest_ · 4 years ago
WikiJS can store its files in git (https://docs.requarks.io/storage/git) though it is not exactly easy to run as a stand alone app.
therealasdf · 4 years ago
AzureDevops wiki is exactly that. A git repo for markdown files