Readit News logoReadit News
Posted by u/behnamoh 4 years ago
Do you ever avoid submitting something on HN so devs won't ruin it?
Let's say I found a way to bring back the number of dislikes of YT videos. Knowing that some YT devs are on the platform, I'd be reluctant to share it so that they won't know about it [0] and ruin the already-ruined YT experience. It shouldn't be like this, I know. But I've lost hope in the well-intentions of some devs in the industry. I thought we were supposed to have each other's back, but apparently money makes people do anything.

[0]: At least for quite some time.

Edit: By "well-intentions" and "having each-other's back", I mean devs doing something that most devs would enjoy, not making each other's life harder. Going back to my example: As a dev, how many times have you watched a YT tutorial to sharpen your skills? Now w/o the dislikes count, all devs have a much harder time filtering useless videos. Whoever removed the dislike count on YT has caused millions of wasted hour-man. Then again, if they're paid well, many devs would do the same.

BatteryMountain · 4 years ago
Yeah I do this. Most of what I build, nobody knows about it nor is it release into the wild.

Latest example: at my current workplace we have some crappy custom compilers for our platform.... I've rebuilt them in a way that I like (and using C# instead of Java), that enables me to use it in a small visual studio code plugin that enables me with real time error messages as I code against our platform, so basically constantly compiling in the background as the file changes. It's great. Can it improve the lives of the 50 or so other devs working on the same platform? For sure (it saves a ton of time and frustration). Will I tell them about it or release it onto our private git repo's and make it part of our platform/build chains? Nope.

I can give you 20 good reason why I won't do it but really don't want to get into it. If they want it, they ask for it & while they are at it, they can pay me a cool sum of money for it. Until then, it is my own private competitive advantage that allows me to work 2 hours per day instead of 8. Not embellishing.

hallway_monitor · 4 years ago
A lot of people are assuming the worst intentions here but anyone who has worked in an enterprise knows sometimes it's useful to build tools for your use and not to share. The tool might not even be allowed, C# is probably not in the supported platforms and even if it was, getting it into the official repos can be arduous.

If OP really cared about maximizing everyone's productivity of course they would share the tool. But if I'm working at a large enterprise and increasing productivity may only lead to laying people off I have exactly zero motivation to share something like this.

pacaro · 4 years ago
In 1995 I had my workstation audited by the IT department. A couple of days later I'm called into a managers office and told that I'd broken policy by installing unlicensed software and that I'm in serious trouble (I was a subcontractor from the department major vendor, this manager couldn't actually discipline me in any meaningful way)

I hand wrote them licenses in perpetuity to the half-dozen utilities that I'd written. One was simply two API calls, it popped a message box, and if you hit ok, would restart windows without rebooting (win16)

willcipriano · 4 years ago
The question I have is how did incentives get so misaligned that this person feels that doubling the productivity of all their peers is unlikely to be worth the effort of presenting a tool.
BatteryMountain · 4 years ago
Telling them that I use C# will just paint a target on my back since everyone is anti Microsoft and they cringe if you mention anything Microsoft related.

Other than that, there is a ton of admin/red tape to get past if I want to introduce it as official tools and some team needs to be able to support it.

My intentions are actually not malicious at all, I'm just reducing my own frustrations and avoiding adding more stuff onto my plate.

Hekioi · 4 years ago
We are writing software!

It's our fucking job to optimize the world around us.

How do you think can we, as a society, advance while doing bullshit jobs?

Make me obsolete!

deltree7 · 4 years ago
Increasing productivity never lays people off, unless the people were originally being unproductive. That's a dumb understanding of economics and even management.

Also, scaling tools to more than one user is incredibly hard. Software development is still custom / art. This tool works because it is suited to OPs workflow and his "way of thinking". In order to make it work for others, it needs lots of improvement and generalization, which is incredibly hard. Some people may even hate it, because they have their own best way to do things.

Devs should stop being delusional about their self-importance in these things. There are 100 other factors going on in an org and your one little tool ain't gonna make a penny difference in the profitability or productivity of the company (unless you have data to prove it, including impact on profitability)

np- · 4 years ago
Kind of similar but maybe in a different context—there are a few tools that I’ve written for myself that speed my work up significantly but I haven’t widely disseminated. It’s not because I don’t want my coworkers to succeed, but more that my tools are directly mapped to the way my brain and hands work. Ie, I’m much more of a shell guy who likes to write command line scripts to speed things up while most of my coworkers prefer heavier IDE/tools/plugins to assist (no judgment either way, its just how our brains work). I offered some of my tools a few times but no one took me up so I don’t bother anymore.

Generalizing a solution, becoming a product owner, maintaining it for others, or even worse having some douchy manager take your idea and ruin it, seems like it would be way more work than I can handle and still do my day job.

sibit · 4 years ago
When I was first started my career I was working at a small software company. I spent my evening and weekends building tools and plugins to optimize my workflow and I quickly became 10x more productive than my coworkers. I shared my tools with the company and in return, I was rewarded with raises year after year. I went from 30k to 80k[0] in 3 years. Now I work for a large software company and the same tactics haven't worked out in my favor so I just keep everything to myself. In my experience not only did I continuously get paid more but everything I wrote was FOSS so it helped improve my portfolio. The catch is you gotta work for great people, and that's hard to find.

[0] Almost double the median household income for my area.

RankingMember · 4 years ago
Making it broadly available could also potentially just set a new floor for productivity in an industry that doesn't always reward such gains commensurate with their value, i.e. you'd get an attaboy and "alright well now you can do three times as much work for the same pay!"
bredren · 4 years ago
This is what happened in my first job out of college. I joined a publicly traded software company and was helping marketing drive leads.

This involved calling engineers at their desks and offering workshops where they got some continental breakfast and to try out some very expensive IC design tool.

The company had a web application written in ColdFusion that had a bunch of forms to fill out each time a phone call or email exchange was performed with a lead. Enterprise sales would use this information to move sales through the pipeline.

I got bored really quickly of tabbing through the page and the repeat data entry based on call or email outcome. So I found a windows macro tool and wrote 5-10 macros that handled 80% of all call outcomes, making it trivial to add details.

Ideally, the web application would just get this kind of automation. However, some of the macros were campaign specific--they just didn't do it.

When my manager saw how I was pulling off the call volume and results, (which were modest--it was still largely cold calling), everyone on the team got a license to the macros and I was asked to share the macros around.

They were all RCGs or recent masters grads, so it wasn't really a problem. But it immediately set a floor for "why are you typing that and using your mouse to finish this call? We have a tool to do that" kind of thing.

matheusmoreira · 4 years ago
Yeah. Why would anyone do things that reduce their own leverage? Assuming rewards proportional to the value of one's work is magical thinking. "If I save a company $100,000, they will give me a significant portion of it." No such deal exists! They're just as likely to give us raises and bonuses as they are to pocket the profits for themselves and assign us even more work.
jdavis703 · 4 years ago
Isn’t that the whole point of software engineering? You should always be engineering yourself out of your current job. If I’m dealing with the same issues I have today, a year from now, then I’d view that as a personal failure.
GartzenDeHaes · 4 years ago
Here's some management issues OP might be referring to.

- Who is going to provide support, bug fixes, documentation, manuals, etc?

- What happens if you leave? Can our other devs maintain this?

- Did I mention documentation?

- Did you get this approved by the architecture committee?

- Why didn't you follow our process improvement policy?

- We are a Java shop, so can you rewrite it in Java; you know this, so why didn't you write it Java?

There's also people issues with the other devs who may not like OP's tools or want to change their process.

folkhack · 4 years ago
Having worked in an enterprise this list is 100% accurate. For better or worse (I think it's the latter) enterprises are all about coloring inside of the lines. If you color outside of the lines you may experience functional success in parallel to professional/social failure.

Large orgs/enterprises aren't about solving the problem - it's about the ceremony around solving the problem expecting the problem to solve itself eventually. Going around that ceremony can/will be seen as "going rogue" and will often end in termination of some sort. If the company wants/needs someone outside of that ceremony they will likely go "hire a consultant" vs. trying to find solutions within the ranks.

I'm not supporting this - I'm just saying it's how it is at the majority of larger companies that I've worked for/with. Honestly I think it sucks and stands in the way of real problem solving.

BatteryMountain · 4 years ago
Perfectly spot on. It's not about being malicious/apathetic but rather the things you mention above.
npmisdown · 4 years ago
My experience is complete opposite to yours.

I've built at least hundred of little tools here and there to improve my productivity to the point where single keypress is what only needed in every other context to run specific scenario.

I've tried to give it to my fellow devs around to make their lives easier.

No-one seems to care enough even to try.

stillicidious · 4 years ago
It sounds like you deserve a new job with more challenging peers. Environments like that can suck the life out of a bright flame

Reminds me of a younger self going to interview for the technical team at a bank. I arrived full of youthful zest, thoroughly aced the interview. One of the interviewers, who already looked rather zombie-like, accompanied me to the exit. As I walked off he lit a cigarette and shouted after me, "don't accept the offer, this is not a place for someone like you!"

Made a variety of friends over the years who have shared stories of that bank. It's notorious, the interviewer was absolutely right.

BatteryMountain · 4 years ago
I've also encountered this kind of apathy in other devs. I don't have a good answer what to do about it though.
alberth · 4 years ago
A lot of successful companies are founded this way (Eg HashiCorp, SAP, Basecamp, etc).

Person sees a massive inefficiency at their employer. They know of a way to save time and money by building a tool to solve for it.

That person starts their own business to sell that product to others.

No better way to find product / market fit than to have first hand experience in the problem that needs to be solved.

htrp · 4 years ago
and more importantly, they get paid in line with what the tool is worth.
Mezzie · 4 years ago
This is one of the main advantages to being the token tech person in a non-tech group/organization: They have no idea how I do anything or how much time it might take. All explaining or sharing too much does is cut into my free time and possibly leads to additional competition in my niche.

There are also larger ideas and projects I keep to myself because I think they're viable and useful but refuse to see them ruined by the current scene/think the drawbacks of letting the idea out in our current culture outweigh the advantages.

I don't LIKE either of these things, but it'd be foolish of me to ignore the lessons I've learned over the past quarter of a century.

uhtred · 4 years ago
I get this. If you tell people, and it gets released into the official tool chain, you will also probably then be its "owner". More work for you with no extra money.
BeetleB · 4 years ago
I was looking for this among all the responses. Surprised you're the only one who mentioned it.

In my first job, I would make constant productivity improvements like this. This resulted in two problems:

1. The team became dependent on them, but only I would maintain them (management's directive). Although productivity went up, management saw me as the bottleneck because if the tool acted poorly, that team member's work was held up until I fixed it. I ended up with a lot more responsibilities, yet had to keep up with all my teammates who were using the tool to be more productive. That's a recipe for burnout. And except for one bonus one year, I didn't get paid more and it was made clear to me that all this stuff would not contribute to a promotion.

In summary: I needed to maintain all this, do my "regular" job, and had no option not to work on the tools any more.

2. Since management loved all these tools, they decided to own them: Prioritized features, changed behavior for the worse, etc. I now had to not only maintain my babies, but I had no say on the development of said babies.

I was eventually fired for not being productive enough on my "real" work.[1]

I'm not jaded, though. Now in every new job, I test the waters. If management acts this way again, I stop showing people my productivity tools, and slowly look for another job. Often, management really does appreciate and reward me.

[1] Well, and for other reasons. I quit first, and they retroactively fired me :-)

WesleyJohnson · 4 years ago
Not only that, but once the company owns it, they'll want to start managing it, making changes, etc. You run the risk of it becoming bloated with features, making it harder to maintain and the whole thing loses the reason it existed in the first place. Maybe that's a stretch, maybe not.

Also, if it does decreases work time by 3/4, guess what happens when the business finds out? Deadlines and estimates get pushed up, and everyone is expected to get that much more done. Sometimes, as a developer, you need a trick up your sleeve to keep your head above water fighting unrealistic expectations. If everyone has the same trick and it becomes part of your SDLC, the goal post just gets moved.

bsder · 4 years ago
Agreed. Ownership sucks and everybody will duck it even if they depend upon it.

Back in the Bad Old Days(tm) when disks still spun and displays weighed as much as a human, all manner of crap used to go into /usr/local but nobody would ever own it--consequently, you'd have knife fights over versions of Perl, for example. Eventually my VP turned to me as a noted BOFH and asked "This is getting out of hand, should we just delete it?" "Depends--will you fire anybody who gives me static?" "Yes." "Consider it gone."

So, I warned people for 4 weeks that everything not owned by somebody was going away. Then at 3 weeks. And at 2, 1. Then at 3 days, 2 days, the day before twice. Through all this only a single soul signed up (and it was an intern ordered to--we transferred the intern to my group and gave his manager a ding and a tongue-lashing later. But that's a different story for after more alcohol).

And finally on the magic day, I wiped it out (with a backup of course).

All holy hell broke loose. Everybody trooped to my cubicle.

To which my response was: "Great! You're here so we now know that you depend on something in /usr/local. So, which package are you the owner of?" Half of them would start screaming. Probably a third would start begging.

To which my response was: "Look. This isn't difficult. You have a dependency. Sign someone up from your group to manage the dependency. Then I'll put it back."

In spite of that, 90% of them walked away without signing up. Being dead in the water and hoping for some other poor fool to take ownership was considered less problematic than signing up for global ownership of a software tool.

That's how crappy "ownership" is in a company.

BatteryMountain · 4 years ago
We do currently have an abandoned tool in our chain that was built about 4 years ago but the guy ran away. We have yet to untangle his mess. Our operations/devops units kicks heavily against stuff like this for this very reason.

Unless I can guarantee myself (and them) that my tool will be a very tight integration with the rest of the system and not become a wart, then I rather won't introduce it. It has to fit properly with the rest of the puzzle.

Deleted Comment

8589934591 · 4 years ago
I can relate to this so much. In my first job I was working with analysts who spent a lot of time generating reports. I was a SQL dev who had learnt python recently and automated my report generation. It cut down work from 1 day per report to less than a second. I shared this with my manager who shared it with the team. The team ended up sending me the files for me to run it. And the ones who wanted to run the script on their system ended up having me on-call support half the time fixing issues unrelated to the script.

I cited a system upgrade and informed everyone the scripts were gone. We're back to how we were, except I had a lot of time in my hands now. Since it was my first job I felt bad for not helping out people. After my experience I feel it's not worth it.

You can say the same arguments for having a really well defined customized editor and your coworkers wanting the productivity you have. I showcase using pycharm, but I do my actual work using emacs.

northisup · 4 years ago
wow, super happy I don't work with people like this.
version_five · 4 years ago
Why would you care? He's not actively harming his coworkers, he's doing what is asked of him work wise, and his colleagues presumably are too - and are themselves getting apparently slack jobs if there is 6hrs per day of easily automated work. Imagine if your coworker told management about an efficiency hack that made you responsible for 4x the output per day. Would you rather work with that person?

Personally, I wouldn't want to work at a company that apparently is not incentivizing creativity. I'd rather work somewhere where I knew if I did something like this I'd get more money or career progression or something, not just more work to do. But I certainly don't blame the employee for this

toomuchtodo · 4 years ago
You wouldn’t know if you did.
arbitrage · 4 years ago
The feeling's mutual, i assure you.
onion2k · 4 years ago
Maybe your colleagues haven't asked for it because they built their own, but better, and are only working for 1 hour a day. Maybe you work twice as hard as the rest of them...
BatteryMountain · 4 years ago
I suspect a handful of them have their own tools to ease their suffering, same as me, but most don't and are just apathetic and carry on with their day.
bokchoi · 4 years ago
Wait, why don't you want to help your colleagues? That seems pretty shitty.
yourapostasy · 4 years ago
A possible reason is stack ranking in annual reviews.

I definitely see that in many of the people I work with at my clients. The more efficient staff members typically only share pretty trivial life hack-esque tips. Their comprehensive framework of all of their efficiency tricks? Kept in their heads.

If they share it, they lose their edge against the peers they are ranked against. If they don't share it, they consistently are in the top 5-10% of employees with the most story points each sprint, and they get better raises.

This is an easy decision for the employees to make. You get what you incentivize for.

anthomtb · 4 years ago
It’s entirely possible that his colleagues have no desire to be helped, which can happen in a shitty organization.
BatteryMountain · 4 years ago
In some cases people play politics: some people are looking for places to find fault or point fingers to if they get stuck, so just limiting the amount of drama in my life.

The code I built is like 500 lines of code, not that complex and any developer with half a brain can build it... so if they want, they can build it themselves. Why should I deprive them from learning how to empower themselves? Its a great learning experience to build tools around your current journey.

And the tools are disposable btw. I've done this at every place I've worked. I have a small graveyard of tools of everything I've built in the past. And sometimes I go and copy code from it for a new tool and so forth. Every developer have a folder somewhere with some cool tools just for in case. If they don't... maybe they just don't care about programming as much as they think.

It's like asking why a mechanic won't share a tool he built by himself for himself, to help him replace a certain part in a car, when he needed 4 arms but only had 2 at the time. He is not obligated to share his tool with the world and keeping it isolated might save lives (lets say there is some risk that someone might die in the case of a malfunction). In the tech world, php comes to mind when I think about releasing things into the wild. I try not to inflict onto others with what is in my head, because how I view the world and how I like to work is not necessarily how other people think.

I work in the Healthcare domain, specifically with medicine and formularies. It is utterly important that we do things correctly. If I share my tools with the others and they misuse it or something goes wrong, and there are real world consequences (a patient gets the wrong medicine/dosage/box or data gets corrupted), then I can guarantee you they will point their finger at me and throw me under 50 different busses. I'm not going to risk that for no good reason.

So it's not as simple and clear cut as just being shitty. I promise you it is not because of selfishness but rather about self preservation (not getting burnt) in conjunction easing my own suffering (cause most healthcare software is an utter shit show, thus my own tooling is just a band aid).

johnisgood · 4 years ago
As long as it is only known to colleagues, it is all good, but if word gets out (and the more people know about it and/or use it, the likelier it is), then they may get more work to do and such. Maybe the coworkers do not give a damn either way.
aidenn0 · 4 years ago
As a contractor, I once made a tool that made things easier for me. The "breakeven" time (time saved exceeded time spent writing it) was a day or two. I made the mistake of sharing this tool and was berated by the client. Every single time after that they made sure to remind me not to work on things "outside the scope" of the contract as apparently writing tools to increase the output they get per billed hour is out-of-scope.
Aardwolf · 4 years ago
Real time error messages are useful, but I don't see how they could make you win 4x time
milesvp · 4 years ago
You perhaps have never worked in a system where compile times are measured in minutes. There is a point where the feedback loop is so long it’s very hard to keep in your head what exactly you were trying to accomplish with the last change. Getting that OODA loop small enough means flow can happen. Flow allows you to do in a very short time what would otherwise have taken you hours.

Do not underestimate the time and cognitive savings of realtime feedback.

BatteryMountain · 4 years ago
Our development life cycle is quite slow/cumbersome with crappy in-house compilers that are on life support... yeah it makes a big difference not having to deploy between each iteration and get local feedback while I'm coding.

I cannot elaborate more than that but it is a bit more hairy than I described. My own tools alleviate some of the problems (sadly not all of them). Doing the best I can with what's available to me (basically building workarounds for shortcomings of our systems where I can see holes).

softwarebeware · 4 years ago
One of the big reasons not to share tools that would otherwise increase productivity in a corporate settings, is that people are petty a*holes. They will fall into at least three big negative buckets.

1. Those who will see it as a personal insult if you write something useful and you will then have a target on your back as they work to block you and hurt your career so you never show them up again.

2. Those who could care less about improving productivity and in fact would rather that everything is tedious, error-prone, and time-consuming so that at least it's mindless for them to go about their day.

3. Those who see everything they don't understand through a lens of fear and hatred. They will not understand your tool OR why it is helpful, and will instead see it as an alien invasion or viral infestation in their workspace, and will work concertedly to resist it.

BatteryMountain · 4 years ago
Number 3 is most common in my experience, esp in dev shops that uses Java. Very averse to things outside of their Java empires.
BatteryMountain · 4 years ago
Another cool one that I've made:

In dotnet there is a package called ssh dot net (spelt out). With this package you can programmatically ssh into your vm's (basically open a normal ssh tunnel from c#). Its great. I use this in conjunction with the postgres dotnet driver to connect to our production databases. I use this when I don't feel good about doing data maintenance directly in sql and need more type safety. So I use my little C# tunneler quite a lot to get my work done quickly and safely, all while the other devs are fighting over vim/emacs vs using postgres in the terminal. So me using my own little tool for all of the risky stuff has been a godsend. That and Datagrip (I have a paid version of this, worth every single penny). The little tunneler reads the database schema when it starts up then generates a class/model for each table so it closely matches with it, that way I can fiddle away and write some clean sql against the db without stress. I know it sound silly but it works great!

So yeah. The company I work for is a strictly-java shop with an apple fetish (so everyone has macbooks). Little do they know I haven't touch the macbook in almost two years. I use my desktop Ryzen pc with a bunch of C# tooling. Ha!

dylan604 · 4 years ago
And how do you get around the concept of any code you write on company time, on company resources is owned by company?
cyberge99 · 4 years ago
That’s a legal construct. The company owns it (in licensure), but he’s the sole user/operator if it.
benhurmarcel · 4 years ago
It’s unenforceable if they don’t know about it.
rurban · 4 years ago
This only help msvc devs, who are in vendor lockin disadvantage anyway, and are always 10 hrs behind.

Normal people used flymake on emacs for the last decades, recently switched to LSP feedback or VScode.

awillen · 4 years ago
Why would they have to pay you a cool sum of money for it? It sounds pretty clearly like you did it for work, so unless you have a very unique employment contract, they already own it.
DangitBobby · 4 years ago
You are making a pretty good case for why they should continue to not share it with anyone.
dkersten · 4 years ago
For work sure, but it also sounds to me that it was built during personal time.

If I use my own time to make something, work isn’t getting it without paying for it. I don’t care what the contract says about personal projects (although I‘ve also never signed one of those “we own everything you do outside of work” clauses because I find them exploitative and abusive)

dheera · 4 years ago
Uh, because you could get 4X the "amount of shit" done in the same amount of time? So ideally they should pay you 4X.
albatross13 · 4 years ago
Respect.
Hekioi · 4 years ago
Wow that's a next level shitty.

Holy shit.

I would not want you and your philosophy around me at all.

BatteryMountain · 4 years ago
I've taken the time this morning to read and comment on all the messages below my original comment. Please read them with empathy. The decisions are not coming from a malicious place.

It is important to know when to leave your mark in the world and when not to. Sometimes it is better not to inflict my own way of life onto others. Just because it makes me work better doesn't reduce other people's efforts. And with the extra time I gain, I do still use it for work stuff, but not on the mundane stuff. I also work in the slow behemoth industry known as Healthcare, so introducing new things carry a ton of risk in our domain and some personal risk. It really depends on the situation, the people/company involved the domain, the government and how formal/academic things are. Context is everything.

My preferred alignment is Neutral in DnD terms. Specifically in this order: Chaotic Neutral, True Neutral and then Lawful Neutral. It's amazing how well the DnD alignment matrix fit onto real life situations. I don't even play the game.

I hope my comments in the conversations on this topic helps others navigate and balance this kind of problem that we all face at one point or another. Introspection and empathy helps a ton in this case. Don't just think about how it will improve other's lives, but also the consequences if things goes wrong. If you ignore the dark side of your invention, you might be blind sided by those consequences when they appear. Then you are forced to pick a side: either support and fix your creation or shrug your shoulders and tell yourself that you don't care. That has it's own set consequences, both for others and your own mind.

dang · 4 years ago
We've banned this account for breaking the site guidelines.

If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

mathgladiator · 4 years ago
A little over a decade ago, I stopped a project* that got submitted to reddit and hacker news which is how I learned about hacker news via the referrer header.

I was young and not exactly entrenched in the culture as I was in the midwest writing code from books without any desire of community, so I wasn't used to opinions.

The negative things expressed caused me a depression since I was proud of my work. Unfortunately, for the business, the right thing to do was to stop developing the language and use shit that the local labor market could handle.

This awareness of what the market could support was depressing as hell, and I eventually couldn't be an effective leader for that company as I was more interested in doing interesting things versus the right thing. I found it boring, and that's when I went into big tech to work on interesting things.

Now, I'm older, and I'm up to my shenanigans again with a new language: http://www.adama-lang.org/

One thing that I have learned is that you can't make everyone happy, but you can make a small group of people ecstatic. Next year, I intend to work on my language full-time (ish) and ship something that people can use with just a command-line.

* https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/6ori0/kira_is_...

* https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=226480

jszymborski · 4 years ago
Very interesting to see emmett, a founder and CEO at Twitch, comment on your project c. 2008.

Some of those reddit comments are less than constructive, sorry to hear you had a bad experience. We're likely worse off as a community for it.

Glad to hear you're back on the horse! Best of luck on your future projects :)

edoceo · 4 years ago
When I was 20 (c1997) I took this job, it had a FileMaker database for tracking tickets. And then my team mates all had to review that system to manually fill out a Word document with hours.

So I made a little code to pull from FM and put into Word. So we could fill these forms, required for payroll, in minutes rather than hours (not a joke). And my team mates loved it. And then our lead claimed it as his own work, presented his accomplishment to the next boss up, bonus, congratulated and promoted. (Fuck you Ed)

Most folk only got they own back.

It had no impact on my career path and I'm still making stuff GPL and BSD and MIT.

shadowgovt · 4 years ago
This is one of the less-obvious benefits of robust version control with authorship history.
hdjjhhvvhga · 4 years ago
Based on my experience, these problems are not so much technical as political. It rarely gets to the stage where you openly contest your boss saying, "I wrote it, not you, and I can prove it" - because it is often trivial to prove, especially nowadays. But in general you say nothing because you want to keep the job.
IshKebab · 4 years ago
If you're at the point where you're going over your bosses head to point out that he's stealing credit it doesn't really matter if you can prove you are right.
corobo · 4 years ago
I used to use my bank's mobile web interface to monitor my balances (with Zabbix, it even alerted when I'd been paid haha)

The mobile page asked for the full passcode whereas the regular page asked for specific digits which, while still automatable, wasn't as easy

The code/method might have been useful to others at the time (especially your Mints and that) but I didn't want them changing it. The mobile site was, as far as I could tell, a relic from an older era that I stumbled across by accident

Everything's starting to catch up now so it's no longer needed. My bank now (Monzo) even does webhooks for transactions if you set them up :)

On the topic of YouTube I really don't get the reaction to removing dislikes, seems a bit overblown. I am biased in that I've never noticed them other than that one Futurama neutral video that keeps them synced with the positive votes though (which ofc is now broken)

Incidentally removing the number and replacing it with a big DISLIKE in caps makes it much more noticeable. I am way more likely to click it if the video is bad now, for whatever that matters

Edit for OP edit:

> Now w/o the dislikes count, all devs have a much harder time filtering useless videos

This is the only argument I've seen opposing the removal of dislikes so far. Are there any others? Even silly reasons, anything other than "bad tutorials tho"

DrammBA · 4 years ago
> This is the only argument I've seen opposing the removal of dislikes so far. Are there any others? Even silly reasons, anything other than "bad tutorials tho"

Is that argument not enough? It is now harder to distinguish good videos in a video platform filled with sub-par content, any other argument would pale in comparison.

corobo · 4 years ago
Edit: the dislike counter on this comment is 2, you can ignore it! At least here the site makes it hard to read if you're visually impaired. Now that's a dislike button!

For me, no. I've never used the dislikes for this, it seems like such a crowbarred in reason everyone latched on to for lack of a better argument

I tend to judge the content on the content

behnamoh · 4 years ago
YT is similar to Coursera, edX, Udacity, etc. in that they all offer tutorial videos. But with YT as a platform, it's the viewer's job to find the best one whereas Coursera and others already review the videos before publishing. Now imagine YT that has enjoyed thousands of additional tutorial videos due to the pandemic and remote classes suddenly stops showing you what other people thought of such tutorials without offering an alternative (such as a "reviewed by YT" badge, etc.) That makes the platform shockingly unusable. I already click on fewer recommended videos and have less incentive to contribute to the platform by clicking the dislike button because I know it will all be for nothing.
corobo · 4 years ago
Clicking the dislike button boosts the video as much as clicking the like button anyway. You're doing everyone a disservice by interacting with bad videos
Amorymeltzer · 4 years ago
Not the same sort of thing as OP's example, but a while ago I found something simple and neat that made me think about code a bit differently. I shared it.

The first few comments were negative — not ideal but certainly okay! — but then the author started getting harassed off-site. I was contacted and immediately deleted the post.

Start to finish, the whole process took maybe 30 minutes, but it was sadly instructive and I think about it every time I submit something here. It's probably made me comment less.

matheusmoreira · 4 years ago
> the author started getting harassed off-site

Because of a post here on HN? What happened?

Amorymeltzer · 4 years ago
Negative, sexist, belittling comments, and a fair bit of https://xkcd.com/385
tpoacher · 4 years ago
I once wrote a python script that went through the various ticket prices on the megabus website (which used simple GET queries in the url), to find out future dates with cheap tickets.

It's the kind of thing that you could do by hand, but the website (intentionally?) made it a tedious and time-consuming clicking exercise to compare effectively.

They changed their API eventually, but I made decent use of the script for a couple of years.

To me it looks like the lind of script that, had it gotten traction, Megabus would have changed their interface a LOT sooner (and also I'd be competing with others over the cheap tickets!); so I kept it to myself.

shmatt · 4 years ago
Just checked my folder of scripts like these, its grown to 76 files

The best part is, eventually you hit things like booking something as soon as it gets online. And it happens so fast you figure out there are multiple engineers out there, each with their own script, fighting it out

charles_f · 4 years ago
> but apparently money makes people do anything.

I don't see the link with your example. How would people profit of finding the number of dislikes on YouTube?

Also, sharing this would increase the number of users of the exploit, and its general publicity, making it more likely to be fixed. Nothing to do with having each other's back.

And then, considering that you are disclosing a security leak, the "having each other's back" thing to do here is disclosing that to google, not exploiting it yourself

enumjorge · 4 years ago
I assumed the OP meant that sharing it here would mean someone on the YT team would see it and fix it. As opposed to having their hacker ethos win out and let the bug stay I guess?
behnamoh · 4 years ago
Thanks, yes, that's what I meant.
jayd16 · 4 years ago
Yeah, the leap here is that OP assumes the dislike change is inherently bad, or universally disliked outside of some minority at Youtube that also doesn't read HN. Why would money need to be the main motivator?
pddpro · 4 years ago
I know that it would be a pretty biased response but do Corporates not make large decisions only when they think that it'll make them more money? Removing dislike metrics sounds like a supremely large decision.

Dead Comment

makecheck · 4 years ago
There is a skill not taught in schools that I might describe as “how to conduct code reviews” and it applies in industry as well as HN comments.

A reason to be afraid to submit may be that the number of respondents that don’t know how to review may exceed the number that do, causing the net result to be more destructive than constructive. Which brings me to another skill — how to ignore input that (even if you receive it) does not really matter, or at least not right away or not as much as other things.

If only as a profession we could resist the urge to quibble about things that probably are fine (or at least not pressing) so that there is more time to dig into the heart of a design or implementation. Yes, that’s an interesting algorithm; no, let’s not segue into the choice of back-end on the web site that happens to host the documentation; yes, that will help with maintainability; no, the number of spaces here does not really matter; yes, that is a good recommendation but not under these time constraints; no, I will not rename 125 variables to suit your arbitrary choice instead of my arbitrary choice.

I would also add that “review” is often misinterpreted as “pure criticism” (again, in code or in HN comments) and it can be nice for unsolicited positive feedback to occur too. Things like “I like how this was done”, or “I’ve never seen anything like that, clever” as opposed to an unending wake of negativity that tries to tear apart any given project.